Sylvester Stallone Hid His Struggles. At 80, He’s Coming Clean. | The Interview

I live on regrets. I live on regrets. >> I can make a castle out of regrets. >> I can make a castle out of regrets. >> I can make a castle out of regrets. [music] [music] [music] >> I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro and today I'm >> I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro and today I'm >> I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro and today I'm interviewing Sylvester Stallone. interviewing Sylvester Stallone. interviewing Sylvester Stallone. At 80 [music] years old, the star of At 80 [music] years old, the star of At 80 [music] years old, the star of Rocky is telling his own against all Rocky is telling his own against all Rocky is telling his own against all odds story [music] in a new memoir, The odds story [music] in a new memoir, The odds story [music] in a new memoir, The Steps, an illusion to one of Rocky's Steps, an illusion to one of Rocky's Steps, an illusion to one of Rocky's most iconic scenes. In the book, Stallone details an abusive In the book, Stallone details an abusive and tortured [music] childhood and how and tortured [music] childhood and how and tortured [music] childhood and how that fueled his success in some of that fueled his success in some of that fueled his success in some of Hollywood's most well-known franchises. Hollywood's most well-known franchises. Hollywood's most well-known franchises. >> It's over, Johnny. >> It's over, Johnny. >> It's over, Johnny. >> IT'S OVER. NOTHING [screaming] IS OVER. >> IT'S OVER. NOTHING [screaming] IS OVER. >> IT'S OVER. NOTHING [screaming] IS OVER. NOTHING. NOTHING. NOTHING. >> WHAT became clear in our conversation is >> WHAT became clear in our conversation is >> WHAT became clear in our conversation is that behind that tough guy exterior he that behind that tough guy exterior he that behind that tough guy exterior he became famous for, [music] there were became famous for, [music] there were became famous for, [music] there were deep struggles with his emotions, his deep struggles with his emotions, his deep struggles with his emotions, his body, and his family. It's a Sylvester body, and his family. It's a Sylvester body, and his family. It's a Sylvester Stallone you've never seen before. I Stallone you've never seen before. I Stallone you've never seen before. I became bimic. Yeah, you didn't know became bimic. Yeah, you didn't know became bimic. Yeah, you didn't know that. Okay, you heard it here first.

that. Okay, you heard it here first. that. Okay, you heard it here first. >> But first, a quick message. If you're >> But first, a quick message. If you're >> But first, a quick message. If you're not a subscriber, we have some news for not a subscriber, we have some news for not a subscriber, we have some news for you. You can now explore the Times for you. You can now explore the Times for you. You can now explore the Times for free without payw walls during your free without payw walls during your free without payw walls during your first month in the New York Times first month in the New York Times first month in the New York Times [music] app. Just download the app and [music] app. Just download the app and [music] app. Just download the app and we hope you enjoy it. Okay, now on to we hope you enjoy it. Okay, now on to we hope you enjoy it. Okay, now on to the interview. [music] the interview. [music] the interview. [music] It has been 50 years. It's hard to It has been 50 years. It's hard to It has been 50 years. It's hard to believe, I'm sure. Um, since the movie believe, I'm sure. Um, since the movie believe, I'm sure. Um, since the movie that started it all, Rocky came out. that started it all, Rocky came out. that started it all, Rocky came out. You're now 80 years old, which I'm sure You're now 80 years old, which I'm sure You're now 80 years old, which I'm sure is also hard to believe. is also hard to believe. is also hard to believe. >> It is. [laughter] >> It is. [laughter] >> It is. [laughter] >> You know, in reading this memoir, one of >> You know, in reading this memoir, one of >> You know, in reading this memoir, one of the things that struck me is that, you the things that struck me is that, you the things that struck me is that, you know, some of these memories are quite know, some of these memories are quite know, some of these memories are quite painful for you. And you wrote in the painful for you. And you wrote in the painful for you. And you wrote in the book book book that at difficult moments in your life, that at difficult moments in your life, that at difficult moments in your life, you told yourself to quote, "Put those you told yourself to quote, "Put those you told yourself to quote, "Put those memories away in a box." and avoid them, memories away in a box." and avoid them, memories away in a box." and avoid them, just move forward. What was it like to just move forward. What was it like to just move forward. What was it like to go back and revisit some of these things go back and revisit some of these things go back and revisit some of these things for this book? for this book? for this book? >> You know, it was it's a mixed emotion. >> You know, it was it's a mixed emotion. >> You know, it was it's a mixed emotion. There used to be some like, you know, There used to be some like, you know, There used to be some like, you know, tears, there' be some laughter, there'd tears, there' be some laughter, there'd tears, there' be some laughter, there'd be some anger, bitterness. And then I be some anger, bitterness. And then I be some anger, bitterness. And then I thought, you know, maybe in one way that thought, you know, maybe in one way that thought, you know, maybe in one way that was the motivation to do something was the motivation to do something was the motivation to do something extraordinary as opposed to, you know, extraordinary as opposed to, you know, extraordinary as opposed to, you know, just being very languid and oh, I had a just being very languid and oh, I had a just being very languid and oh, I had a nice relationship growing up, but I have nice relationship growing up, but I have nice relationship growing up, but I have no angst inside of me, that fuel. So, no angst inside of me, that fuel. So, no angst inside of me, that fuel. So, I've always been on that cusp like, you I've always been on that cusp like, you I've always been on that cusp like, you know, the guy punched you in your mouth, know, the guy punched you in your mouth, know, the guy punched you in your mouth, but did he do you a favor? Because now but did he do you a favor? Because now but did he do you a favor? Because now you go to the gym and you become the you go to the gym and you become the you go to the gym and you become the tough guy. you know some those things I

tough guy. you know some those things I tough guy. you know some those things I truly believe that the parents are the truly believe that the parents are the truly believe that the parents are the mold makers they're sculptors they don't mold makers they're sculptors they don't mold makers they're sculptors they don't realize it but they're sculptors they're realize it but they're sculptors they're realize it but they're sculptors they're rod danceans and they are sculpting rod danceans and they are sculpting rod danceans and they are sculpting their masterpiece or their disaster their masterpiece or their disaster their masterpiece or their disaster >> yeah I want to start actually at the >> yeah I want to start actually at the >> yeah I want to start actually at the very beginning because very beginning because very beginning because you came into the world um in many ways you came into the world um in many ways you came into the world um in many ways how you have inhabited it which is how you have inhabited it which is how you have inhabited it which is >> well um you know with a lot of turmoil a >> well um you know with a lot of turmoil a >> well um you know with a lot of turmoil a lot drama. Um, it was a rough entry. Can lot drama. Um, it was a rough entry. Can lot drama. Um, it was a rough entry. Can you tell me about the day you were born? you tell me about the day you were born? you tell me about the day you were born? >> Well, it was my mother >> Well, it was my mother >> Well, it was my mother really [snorts] really [snorts] really [snorts] I she also came from a lot of turmoil I she also came from a lot of turmoil I she also came from a lot of turmoil and she really wasn't mother material and she really wasn't mother material and she really wasn't mother material and she had grand dealio's plans for her and she had grand dealio's plans for her and she had grand dealio's plans for her life. So, my her pregnancy with me was a life. So, my her pregnancy with me was a life. So, my her pregnancy with me was a big- time interruption. And I don't big- time interruption. And I don't big- time interruption. And I don't think she wanted to really believe it think she wanted to really believe it think she wanted to really believe it was happening even though it was in the was happening even though it was in the was happening even though it was in the ninth month and she was finally on a bus ninth month and she was finally on a bus ninth month and she was finally on a bus and she goes into labor and she said I I and she goes into labor and she said I I and she goes into labor and she said I I want to have it here kind it was it was want to have it here kind it was it was want to have it here kind it was it was bad and then we just happened to be near bad and then we just happened to be near bad and then we just happened to be near a uh a medical center you might call it a uh a medical center you might call it a uh a medical center you might call it like a charity ward. It's like there like a charity ward. It's like there like a charity ward. It's like there weren't even doctors there was just weren't even doctors there was just weren't even doctors there was just mainly interns and one doctor and that's mainly interns and one doctor and that's mainly interns and one doctor and that's my my my that's my first breath on earth.

that's my first breath on earth. that's my first breath on earth. >> Yeah. I mean, here in New York City, it >> Yeah. I mean, here in New York City, it >> Yeah. I mean, here in New York City, it was a [clears throat] bus. It was a bus was a [clears throat] bus. It was a bus was a [clears throat] bus. It was a bus right here. right here. right here. >> And the people who delivered you used >> And the people who delivered you used >> And the people who delivered you used forceps and they partially par paralyzed forceps and they partially par paralyzed forceps and they partially par paralyzed your face. Right. your face. Right. your face. Right. >> Could have been worse cuz sometimes you >> Could have been worse cuz sometimes you >> Could have been worse cuz sometimes you get brain damage from it. But maybe that get brain damage from it. But maybe that get brain damage from it. But maybe that happened too. I don't know. But it was a happened too. I don't know. But it was a happened too. I don't know. But it was a terrible thing growing up cuz I slurred terrible thing growing up cuz I slurred terrible thing growing up cuz I slurred and I mumbled and and I mumbled and and I mumbled and it was like 10 times worse than Ragy. It it was like 10 times worse than Ragy. It it was like 10 times worse than Ragy. It was It was rough. Did you see yourself was It was rough. Did you see yourself was It was rough. Did you see yourself back then as having a disability when back then as having a disability when back then as having a disability when you were young? I mean, you were young? I mean, you were young? I mean, >> oh yeah, it was, you know, you're you're >> oh yeah, it was, you know, you're you're >> oh yeah, it was, you know, you're you're not aware of it. You like even if you not aware of it. You like even if you not aware of it. You like even if you have a lisp or a stutter, some you're so have a lisp or a stutter, some you're so have a lisp or a stutter, some you're so familiar with it, familiar with it, familiar with it, >> but other people, you know, what what >> but other people, you know, what what >> but other people, you know, what what Jesus say anything? What language is Jesus say anything? What language is Jesus say anything? What language is that? Oh, God. Um, you know, that? Oh, God. Um, you know, that? Oh, God. Um, you know, in the book you seem to suggest that in the book you seem to suggest that in the book you seem to suggest that your both your parents saw your arrival your both your parents saw your arrival your both your parents saw your arrival as having ruined their ambitions in some as having ruined their ambitions in some as having ruined their ambitions in some way. You wrote, "Can you really make way. You wrote, "Can you really make way. You wrote, "Can you really make people proud who never wanted you in the people proud who never wanted you in the people proud who never wanted you in the first place?"

first place?" first place?" And when you were very little, you were And when you were very little, you were And when you were very little, you were sent to go live in a boarding house. I sent to go live in a boarding house. I sent to go live in a boarding house. I mean, you were very little. mean, you were very little. mean, you were very little. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And your parents only visited you once a >> And your parents only visited you once a >> And your parents only visited you once a month. I've got to say this is by modern month. I've got to say this is by modern month. I've got to say this is by modern standards pretty standards pretty standards pretty um um um >> extreme stuff >> extreme stuff >> extreme stuff and you know it's very clear that when and you know it's very clear that when and you know it's very clear that when you were young you never got the love you were young you never got the love you were young you never got the love you never got the support you never got the support you never got the support >> that most children need. [clears throat] >> that most children need. [clears throat] >> that most children need. [clears throat] >> I mean how did you understand that as a >> I mean how did you understand that as a >> I mean how did you understand that as a kid? How did it make you feel? I don't kid? How did it make you feel? I don't kid? How did it make you feel? I don't know if there was some pre preventative know if there was some pre preventative know if there was some pre preventative thing or some uh blockage of being kind thing or some uh blockage of being kind thing or some uh blockage of being kind of [clears throat] completely abandoned of [clears throat] completely abandoned of [clears throat] completely abandoned or forlored or whatever. I just was or forlored or whatever. I just was or forlored or whatever. I just was raised by strangers, you know, in a raised by strangers, you know, in a raised by strangers, you know, in a boarding house and it became sort of a boarding house and it became sort of a boarding house and it became sort of a natural environment and my parents natural environment and my parents natural environment and my parents really were never nurturing. So, this really were never nurturing. So, this really were never nurturing. So, this was actually a bonus compared to where I was actually a bonus compared to where I was actually a bonus compared to where I was living. I think [snorts] was living. I think [snorts] was living. I think [snorts] if you are emotionally deprived when if you are emotionally deprived when if you are emotionally deprived when you're younger.

you're younger. you're younger. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um you learn to lock things away, which >> Um you learn to lock things away, which >> Um you learn to lock things away, which is why I started with that quote about is why I started with that quote about is why I started with that quote about you locking things away. Do you think it you locking things away. Do you think it you locking things away. Do you think it made you like tough made you like tough made you like tough >> in the wrong way? Yeah. It made me very >> in the wrong way? Yeah. It made me very >> in the wrong way? Yeah. It made me very tough and I literally haven't figured tough and I literally haven't figured tough and I literally haven't figured out real real true love until you know out real real true love until you know out real real true love until you know like 70. It it really was, you know, like 70. It it really was, you know, like 70. It it really was, you know, because you have different incarn in because you have different incarn in because you have different incarn in incarnations of love. we think this is incarnations of love. we think this is incarnations of love. we think this is it or this or that. But uh to really it or this or that. But uh to really it or this or that. But uh to really have unequivocally like true love and I have unequivocally like true love and I have unequivocally like true love and I love my wife and my kids and my I mean love my wife and my kids and my I mean love my wife and my kids and my I mean that total abandonment that reckless that total abandonment that reckless that total abandonment that reckless love that you would jump into a volcano love that you would jump into a volcano love that you would jump into a volcano for them that came late and that's a big for them that came late and that's a big for them that came late and that's a big pity. It really is because I was so pity. It really is because I was so pity. It really is because I was so consumed consumed consumed with not being another bum from the with not being another bum from the with not being another bum from the neighborhood. I was very very neighborhood. I was very very neighborhood. I was very very competitive like a pitbull. Like it's competitive like a pitbull. Like it's competitive like a pitbull. Like it's just that's what got me going. It's not just that's what got me going. It's not just that's what got me going. It's not healthy. And I would have conversation healthy. And I would have conversation healthy. And I would have conversation with my wife and my brother or anyone at with my wife and my brother or anyone at with my wife and my brother or anyone at the time about why I was so competitive.

the time about why I was so competitive. the time about why I was so competitive. >> It really was it was but then again >> It really was it was but then again >> It really was it was but then again >> made you who you are. Yeah. >> made you who you are. Yeah. >> made you who you are. Yeah. >> And you've had quite a life. >> And you've had quite a life. >> And you've had quite a life. >> Your parents had this very hostile and >> Your parents had this very hostile and >> Your parents had this very hostile and >> violent marriage in many ways. >> violent marriage in many ways. >> violent marriage in many ways. >> Um and they divorced when you were about >> Um and they divorced when you were about >> Um and they divorced when you were about 11 years old. Is that is that right? 11 years old. Is that is that right? 11 years old. Is that is that right? >> Uh yeah. 10 10 10 and a half 11. Yeah. >> Uh yeah. 10 10 10 and a half 11. Yeah. >> Uh yeah. 10 10 10 and a half 11. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, what do you remember about >> Yeah. I mean, what do you remember about >> Yeah. I mean, what do you remember about that separation? And and how did they that separation? And and how did they that separation? And and how did they decide to split you and your brother up? decide to split you and your brother up? decide to split you and your brother up? >> It was it was traumatic. Um I'm not sure >> It was it was traumatic. Um I'm not sure >> It was it was traumatic. Um I'm not sure about how my brother reacted, but when about how my brother reacted, but when about how my brother reacted, but when she goes, "I'm leaving. I won't be she goes, "I'm leaving. I won't be she goes, "I'm leaving. I won't be living here anymore." And I Where you living here anymore." And I Where you living here anymore." And I Where you going? Cuz I'm just I'm going to live going? Cuz I'm just I'm going to live going? Cuz I'm just I'm going to live somewhere else. I'm moving out. I somewhere else. I'm moving out. I somewhere else. I'm moving out. I remember holding on to her leg and like remember holding on to her leg and like remember holding on to her leg and like getting literally dragged. Oh. getting literally dragged. Oh. getting literally dragged. Oh. >> So, yeah. It was like, you [laughter] >> So, yeah. It was like, you [laughter] >> So, yeah. It was like, you [laughter] know what I mean? Like, hey, mom, come know what I mean? Like, hey, mom, come know what I mean? Like, hey, mom, come back. And this way, you guys were all back. And this way, you guys were all back. And this way, you guys were all living together. living together. living together. >> Yeah. And she pulled the leg away out >> Yeah. And she pulled the leg away out >> Yeah. And she pulled the leg away out the door and that was it. And my brother the door and that was it. And my brother the door and that was it. And my brother came home a little bit after that and came home a little bit after that and came home a little bit after that and there was nobody there, you know. I I there was nobody there, you know. I I there was nobody there, you know. I I guess my father took me to the shop or guess my father took me to the shop or guess my father took me to the shop or something. So, he was abandoned. And he something. So, he was abandoned. And he something. So, he was abandoned. And he never got over that [snorts] ever.

never got over that [snorts] ever. never got over that [snorts] ever. >> I that scene I'm so I'm so sorry. I just >> I that scene I'm so I'm so sorry. I just >> I that scene I'm so I'm so sorry. I just want to linger on it of just you holding want to linger on it of just you holding want to linger on it of just you holding >> Oh, it was it was rough. It was I'm >> Oh, it was it was rough. It was I'm >> Oh, it was it was rough. It was I'm telling you one of those things where telling you one of those things where telling you one of those things where your legs buckle, you drop down, you your legs buckle, you drop down, you your legs buckle, you drop down, you grab around like the like a leg try to grab around like the like a leg try to grab around like the like a leg try to tackle her. tackle her. tackle her. >> What was going on? >> What was going on? >> What was going on? >> I don't know because she never was a >> I don't know because she never was a >> I don't know because she never was a loving person. I know I'm not alone in loving person. I know I'm not alone in loving person. I know I'm not alone in this, that there's a connection this, that there's a connection this, that there's a connection at [clears throat] birth that some at [clears throat] birth that some at [clears throat] birth that some people have that's so [sighs and gasps] palpable that no matter what, you cannot palpable that no matter what, you cannot break away from this ability or need to break away from this ability or need to break away from this ability or need to have this person's attention. It's like have this person's attention. It's like have this person's attention. It's like electric and then being deprived and put electric and then being deprived and put electric and then being deprived and put into the dark. It's a it's a terrible into the dark. It's a it's a terrible into the dark. It's a it's a terrible syndrome. It really is. syndrome. It really is. syndrome. It really is. >> It's 100% true. You can never get rid of >> It's 100% true. You can never get rid of >> It's 100% true. You can never get rid of the connection to your parents. the connection to your parents. the connection to your parents. >> So, is that blood thicker than water? I >> So, is that blood thicker than water? I >> So, is that blood thicker than water? I used to think, you know, I used to say, used to think, you know, I used to say, used to think, you know, I used to say, "No, it's just stickier." But it is "No, it's just stickier." But it is "No, it's just stickier." But it is thicker. I mean, there's something there thicker. I mean, there's something there thicker. I mean, there's something there that that is quite [snorts] that that is quite [snorts] that that is quite [snorts] I mean, painful. Really is.

I mean, painful. Really is. I mean, painful. Really is. >> You You go to Maryland and you um end up >> You You go to Maryland and you um end up >> You You go to Maryland and you um end up living with your dad. living with your dad. living with your dad. Um he loved horses. He played polo. But Um he loved horses. He played polo. But Um he loved horses. He played polo. But what was it like living alone with your what was it like living alone with your what was it like living alone with your dad? Because we've talked a little bit dad? Because we've talked a little bit dad? Because we've talked a little bit about your mom, but that didn't sound about your mom, but that didn't sound about your mom, but that didn't sound like a great time either. like a great time either. like a great time either. >> It would um >> It would um >> It would um be I guess these constant [snorts] be I guess these constant [snorts] be I guess these constant [snorts] bombastic explosions and then total bombastic explosions and then total bombastic explosions and then total silence because um if he were talking silence because um if he were talking silence because um if he were talking and then uh he said, I you know, I don't and then uh he said, I you know, I don't and then uh he said, I you know, I don't know if I agree with that. He start know if I agree with that. He start know if I agree with that. He start spinning his fork and suck his teeth and spinning his fork and suck his teeth and spinning his fork and suck his teeth and you knew what was coming and next thing you knew what was coming and next thing you knew what was coming and next thing you know, wham, he had very big hands. you know, wham, he had very big hands. you know, wham, he had very big hands. You just [laughter] learned to duck a You just [laughter] learned to duck a You just [laughter] learned to duck a little bit, but there were sometimes I little bit, but there were sometimes I little bit, but there were sometimes I I'll never forget um God, you know, I I'll never forget um God, you know, I I'll never forget um God, you know, I don't poor slide, but all right. No, I don't poor slide, but all right. No, I don't poor slide, but all right. No, I didn't put a lot of stuff in the book didn't put a lot of stuff in the book didn't put a lot of stuff in the book because I didn't want a pity party, but because I didn't want a pity party, but because I didn't want a pity party, but it was it was insane. For example, it's it was it was insane. For example, it's it was it was insane. For example, it's church.

church. church. Uh before we go to church, go to the Uh before we go to church, go to the Uh before we go to church, go to the store, which is a block away, buy some store, which is a block away, buy some store, which is a block away, buy some bread. bread. bread. I get Okay. I go down there. I see a I get Okay. I go down there. I see a I get Okay. I go down there. I see a couple of my friends. Oh, I got to get couple of my friends. Oh, I got to get couple of my friends. Oh, I got to get back. And I bring home sandwich spread, back. And I bring home sandwich spread, back. And I bring home sandwich spread, nut bread. nut bread. nut bread. >> Oh. >> Oh. >> Oh. >> And he kicked me in the stomach and >> And he kicked me in the stomach and >> And he kicked me in the stomach and [snorts] hit me and like laid me out. [snorts] hit me and like laid me out. [snorts] hit me and like laid me out. Got in the car and went to church. from Got in the car and went to church. from Got in the car and went to church. from there in the street tie like this kind there in the street tie like this kind there in the street tie like this kind of thing with you know with mayonnaise of thing with you know with mayonnaise of thing with you know with mayonnaise really. It's it's unbelievable. really. It's it's unbelievable. really. It's it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. >> Did you >> Did you >> Did you ever fight back? Um, ever fight back? Um, ever fight back? Um, this is going to sound very this is going to sound very this is going to sound very [snorts] I guess Greek tragedy kind of [snorts] I guess Greek tragedy kind of [snorts] I guess Greek tragedy kind of thing like thing like thing like when I was when I was when I was say 40 3 4 and he was 25 years older say 40 3 4 and he was 25 years older say 40 3 4 and he was 25 years older than me. He goes, "Yeah, you know, than me. He goes, "Yeah, you know, than me. He goes, "Yeah, you know, you're doing this, you're doing that. Is you're doing this, you're doing that. Is you're doing this, you're doing that. Is there anything left in your life that there anything left in your life that there anything left in your life that you like to do?" I said, "I wish you and you like to do?" I said, "I wish you and you like to do?" I said, "I wish you and I could be the same age 3 minutes." And I could be the same age 3 minutes." And I could be the same age 3 minutes." And he goes, "Why?" I said, "Because I'd he goes, "Why?" I said, "Because I'd he goes, "Why?" I said, "Because I'd like to give you some of your own like to give you some of your own like to give you some of your own medicine, and you would know what it'd medicine, and you would know what it'd medicine, and you would know what it'd be like to have your ass kicked." He be like to have your ass kicked." He be like to have your ass kicked." He goes, goes, goes, takes off his jacket. He goes, "Don't takes off his jacket. He goes, "Don't takes off his jacket. He goes, "Don't wait. Let's bring it on." Right now, wait. Let's bring it on." Right now, wait. Let's bring it on." Right now, this is on Sunset Boulevard. Pull the this is on Sunset Boulevard. Pull the this is on Sunset Boulevard. Pull the car over. Said, "Let's car over. Said, "Let's car over. Said, "Let's [clears throat] You don't have to wait.

[clears throat] You don't have to wait. [clears throat] You don't have to wait. What? Come on." He was ready to go at, What? Come on." He was ready to go at, What? Come on." He was ready to go at, you know, 68 years old. you know, 68 years old. you know, 68 years old. That's so when people go, "Where do you That's so when people go, "Where do you That's so when people go, "Where do you get the um ferocity to play Ramburger?" get the um ferocity to play Ramburger?" get the um ferocity to play Ramburger?" Kinetic. [laughter] >> I mean, your dad was not only abusive, >> I mean, your dad was not only abusive, but he was competitive with you. but he was competitive with you. but he was competitive with you. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> I mean, he often tried to oneup you, >> I mean, he often tried to oneup you, >> I mean, he often tried to oneup you, sort of humiliate you. You talk about sort of humiliate you. You talk about sort of humiliate you. You talk about what you've just discussed, you know, what you've just discussed, you know, what you've just discussed, you know, him beating you up in front of church, him beating you up in front of church, him beating you up in front of church, but also, but also, but also, >> you know, you became a very good polo >> you know, you became a very good polo >> you know, you became a very good polo player and at a polo match in front of player and at a polo match in front of player and at a polo match in front of everyone, he dragged you off everyone, he dragged you off everyone, he dragged you off >> the horse and beat you up in front of >> the horse and beat you up in front of >> the horse and beat you up in front of everyone. Why do you think he was that everyone. Why do you think he was that everyone. Why do you think he was that way with you? way with you? way with you? >> I don't know. >> I don't know. >> I don't know. >> You never asked. >> You never asked. >> You never asked. >> I don't know. You know, you keep on >> I don't know. You know, you keep on >> I don't know. You know, you keep on Well, his father was like that. His Well, his father was like that. His Well, his father was like that. His father was a a very stoic barber with father was a a very stoic barber with father was a a very stoic barber with mustache and you know, you know, they mustache and you know, you know, they mustache and you know, you know, they say like a say like a say like a fly sitting on a ton of cow thinks fly sitting on a ton of cow thinks fly sitting on a ton of cow thinks himself a king, you know what I mean? So himself a king, you know what I mean? So himself a king, you know what I mean? So he was like, "Yeah, so the king of the he was like, "Yeah, so the king of the he was like, "Yeah, so the king of the street." And so he had this sort of street." And so he had this sort of street." And so he had this sort of imperiousness imperiousness imperiousness [snorts] and I think he was cold as [snorts] and I think he was cold as [snorts] and I think he was cold as hell. So my father was very very cold hell. So my father was very very cold hell. So my father was very very cold and tough for example. Uh and tough for example. Uh and tough for example. Uh [snorts] there was a cat [snorts] there was a cat [snorts] there was a cat uh just making noise outside the house.

uh just making noise outside the house. uh just making noise outside the house. He went inside and went out got cat. He went inside and went out got cat. He went inside and went out got cat. Come here. Come. Took it into the Come here. Come. Took it into the Come here. Come. Took it into the laundry room, shot it, and left it in laundry room, shot it, and left it in laundry room, shot it, and left it in the wash tub. Now I think he did that to the wash tub. Now I think he did that to the wash tub. Now I think he did that to impress me. Like holy gra you'll never impress me. Like holy gra you'll never impress me. Like holy gra you'll never be as tough as your old man. And I be as tough as your old man. And I be as tough as your old man. And I won't. There is no chance. won't. There is no chance. won't. There is no chance. That's [snorts] a whole other league. That's [snorts] a whole other league. That's [snorts] a whole other league. >> It's funny though, you keep on using the >> It's funny though, you keep on using the >> It's funny though, you keep on using the word tough. word tough. word tough. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I don't hear tough. I hear messed >> And I don't hear tough. I hear messed >> And I don't hear tough. I hear messed up. up. up. >> You know, you're right because I'm I'm >> You know, you're right because I'm I'm >> You know, you're right because I'm I'm using tough as a a masculine banner for using tough as a a masculine banner for using tough as a a masculine banner for something much more perverse and weird something much more perverse and weird something much more perverse and weird >> and dark and dark. Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> and dark and dark. Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> and dark and dark. Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> With all that drama and all that >> With all that drama and all that >> With all that drama and all that violence, was there any love between you violence, was there any love between you violence, was there any love between you two? Did you feel any love? two? Did you feel any love? two? Did you feel any love? >> Only on his deathbed. That's about it. I >> Only on his deathbed. That's about it. I >> Only on his deathbed. That's about it. I never, you know, it's so weird. Um, my never, you know, it's so weird. Um, my never, you know, it's so weird. Um, my mother never and my brother will attest, mother never and my brother will attest, mother never and my brother will attest, hugged me ever, ever. There was never hugged me ever, ever. There was never hugged me ever, ever. There was never like, oh, hold you to the breast kind of like, oh, hold you to the breast kind of like, oh, hold you to the breast kind of a thing. Kissing, forget it. Like a thing. Kissing, forget it. Like a thing. Kissing, forget it. Like nothing. It was always an air thing. and nothing. It was always an air thing. and nothing. It was always an air thing. and my father wasn't um and well he wasn't my father wasn't um and well he wasn't my father wasn't um and well he wasn't any better at all but I'll never forget any better at all but I'll never forget any better at all but I'll never forget we were and this I was maybe 9 years old we were and this I was maybe 9 years old we were and this I was maybe 9 years old and he would always have me like take and he would always have me like take and he would always have me like take care of his horses, feed his horse but care of his horses, feed his horse but care of his horses, feed his horse but never ride his horses and so we were never ride his horses and so we were never ride his horses and so we were coming back from the barn he's driving coming back from the barn he's driving coming back from the barn he's driving and and and and and and and and and I kind of fell asleep so he put my head I kind of fell asleep so he put my head I kind of fell asleep so he put my head on his knee and his hand on my head I

on his knee and his hand on my head I on his knee and his hand on my head I never never never >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> over that. >> over that. >> over that. >> That was >> That was >> That was >> that was the epitome. >> that was the epitome. >> that was the epitome. >> Like I went, wow, that's what it feels >> Like I went, wow, that's what it feels >> Like I went, wow, that's what it feels like. like. like. >> Oh, >> Oh, >> Oh, >> you know what I mean? It's like, wow. >> you know what I mean? It's like, wow. >> you know what I mean? It's like, wow. Like, you know, just a simple stroking Like, you know, just a simple stroking Like, you know, just a simple stroking of your child's hair, but that was it. of your child's hair, but that was it. of your child's hair, but that was it. It was one and done. It was one and done. It was one and done. >> So much so that you remember it. >> So much so that you remember it. >> So much so that you remember it. >> One and done. >> One and done. >> One and done. you know, you went to many different you know, you went to many different you know, you went to many different schools um during this period and >> one of the ones that you talk about is >> one of the ones that you talk about is for um kids that needed discipline. You for um kids that needed discipline. You for um kids that needed discipline. You got sent to sort of reform school. It got sent to sort of reform school. It got sent to sort of reform school. It sounds like sounds like sounds like >> Deo. >> Deo. >> Deo. >> Yeah. And >> Yeah. And >> Yeah. And I I I you talk about being put in a psych you talk about being put in a psych you talk about being put in a psych ward. Um, ward. Um, ward. Um, and I have to tell you that this was and I have to tell you that this was and I have to tell you that this was one of the most chilling things that I one of the most chilling things that I one of the most chilling things that I have read. Can you tell me that story have read. Can you tell me that story have read. Can you tell me that story and and and and and and >> yes, >> yes, >> yes, >> why you included it?

>> why you included it? >> why you included it? >> You know, as an adult, I saw one floor >> You know, as an adult, I saw one floor >> You know, as an adult, I saw one floor with a cuckoo's nest with a cuckoo's nest with a cuckoo's nest >> and it looked like a bunch of like >> and it looked like a bunch of like >> and it looked like a bunch of like [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] kind of eccentric old guys having a kind of eccentric old guys having a kind of eccentric old guys having a good, you know what I mean? good, you know what I mean? good, you know what I mean? >> Mhm. No, at this school there were five >> Mhm. No, at this school there were five >> Mhm. No, at this school there were five different departments for different different departments for different different departments for different ages. And in my age, it would be like ages. And in my age, it would be like ages. And in my age, it would be like the teenagers. If you ever snuck out to the teenagers. If you ever snuck out to the teenagers. If you ever snuck out to see a girl or do something like that, see a girl or do something like that, see a girl or do something like that, you'll be reprimanded by taking to you'll be reprimanded by taking to you'll be reprimanded by taking to taking to a place called Park Lodge or taking to a place called Park Lodge or taking to a place called Park Lodge or the snake pit, which on the outside the snake pit, which on the outside the snake pit, which on the outside looked like a tutor type big old tutor looked like a tutor type big old tutor looked like a tutor type big old tutor home from the 20s. And then you walked home from the 20s. And then you walked home from the 20s. And then you walked inside and you now entered inside and you now entered inside and you now entered [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] the heart of insanity. The smell, the the heart of insanity. The smell, the the heart of insanity. The smell, the filth, people running around naked and filth, people running around naked and filth, people running around naked and clawing, hands tied, drooling. And this clawing, hands tied, drooling. And this clawing, hands tied, drooling. And this is what they thought would impress you is what they thought would impress you is what they thought would impress you never to break the rules again. And then never to break the rules again. And then never to break the rules again. And then they marched me. And I mean, they're they marched me. And I mean, they're they marched me. And I mean, they're calling. And this is called the lifers calling. And this is called the lifers calling. And this is called the lifers where these people there was no going where these people there was no going where these people there was no going home ever. Everyone had straps that be home ever. Everyone had straps that be home ever. Everyone had straps that be tied down at night. The windows were tied down at night. The windows were tied down at night. The windows were covered with bars or grills and they covered with bars or grills and they covered with bars or grills and they took me took me took me to a cell and it was a padded cell and to a cell and it was a padded cell and to a cell and it was a padded cell and I'll never forget it was that high so I'll never forget it was that high so I'll never forget it was that high so you could never get off your knees. And

you could never get off your knees. And you could never get off your knees. And inside I'd look up right here and um inside I'd look up right here and um inside I'd look up right here and um you'd have this these elements like dust you'd have this these elements like dust you'd have this these elements like dust constantly falling down. You see the constantly falling down. You see the constantly falling down. You see the real it's been clawed at and clawed at real it's been clawed at and clawed at real it's been clawed at and clawed at by the predecessors of this particular by the predecessors of this particular by the predecessors of this particular dungeon and clawed at dungeon and clawed at dungeon and clawed at >> and they left you how long? >> and they left you how long? >> and they left you how long? >> I was there for like a couple weeks. >> I was there for like a couple weeks. >> I was there for like a couple weeks. It was it was wild. But this to me was It was it was wild. But this to me was It was it was wild. But this to me was one of the better things that happened one of the better things that happened one of the better things that happened too. too. too. I said, "I know they're going to try to I said, "I know they're going to try to I said, "I know they're going to try to break me. I I I was attacked there. I break me. I I I was attacked there. I break me. I I I was attacked there. I they was tried to rip my groin off. It they was tried to rip my groin off. It they was tried to rip my groin off. It was bad." was bad." was bad." >> What do you mean tried to break your >> What do you mean tried to break your >> What do you mean tried to break your groin? Like they groin? Like they groin? Like they >> Yeah. Jird. He was a um actually he was >> Yeah. Jird. He was a um actually he was >> Yeah. Jird. He was a um actually he was the son of a actor named Lloyd Nolan and the son of a actor named Lloyd Nolan and the son of a actor named Lloyd Nolan and he was put in there. He was big, had no he was put in there. He was big, had no he was put in there. He was big, had no hair, always naked, just rotten teeth hair, always naked, just rotten teeth hair, always naked, just rotten teeth cuz you know I never brushed teeth. cuz you know I never brushed teeth. cuz you know I never brushed teeth. [snorts] and he made sounds and they [snorts] and he made sounds and they [snorts] and he made sounds and they call him J-bird cuz he's always naked as call him J-bird cuz he's always naked as call him J-bird cuz he's always naked as a J-bird.

a J-bird. a J-bird. >> And I go into the bathroom on the way to >> And I go into the bathroom on the way to >> And I go into the bathroom on the way to [clears throat] food messaul which was [clears throat] food messaul which was [clears throat] food messaul which was really just a bunch of troughs and really just a bunch of troughs and really just a bunch of troughs and I'm there and he comes in. I this I'm there and he comes in. I this I'm there and he comes in. I this smelly bear comes around me and smelly bear comes around me and smelly bear comes around me and he's like ripping on my throat and he's he's like ripping on my throat and he's he's like ripping on my throat and he's going into my pants and he's grabbing my going into my pants and he's grabbing my going into my pants and he's grabbing my groin. And I luckily, you know, got groin. And I luckily, you know, got groin. And I luckily, you know, got around to do this stuff in the face and around to do this stuff in the face and around to do this stuff in the face and then the two guards come in and beating then the two guards come in and beating then the two guards come in and beating the crap out of him with razor straps. the crap out of him with razor straps. the crap out of him with razor straps. And I go, so I go, "What the hell's And I go, so I go, "What the hell's And I go, so I go, "What the hell's wrong with him? You're in a crazy house, wrong with him? You're in a crazy house, wrong with him? You're in a crazy house, boy. boy. boy. Nothing's wrong with him. Nothing's wrong with him. Nothing's wrong with him. he's crazy. You know, that kind of he's crazy. You know, that kind of he's crazy. You know, that kind of thing. I went, "Wow." So, let me just thing. I went, "Wow." So, let me just thing. I went, "Wow." So, let me just get to the point. I won't be labored get to the point. I won't be labored get to the point. I won't be labored anymore. I felt when I came out of there anymore. I felt when I came out of there anymore. I felt when I came out of there and and I was standing before the school and and I was standing before the school and and I was standing before the school president, I mean, the principal because president, I mean, the principal because president, I mean, the principal because you learned your lesson and that I you learned your lesson and that I you learned your lesson and that I learned a lot more than that lesson. learned a lot more than that lesson. learned a lot more than that lesson. Much better lesson. You can't break me.

Much better lesson. You can't break me. Much better lesson. You can't break me. You can't break me. So when I got to the You can't break me. So when I got to the You can't break me. So when I got to the city and everything that came after city and everything that came after city and everything that came after that, I always felt I was unbreakable in that, I always felt I was unbreakable in that, I always felt I was unbreakable in that in that way. My heart could be that in that way. My heart could be that in that way. My heart could be broken, all that kind of stuff like broken, all that kind of stuff like broken, all that kind of stuff like every human being. But I'm talking about every human being. But I'm talking about every human being. But I'm talking about Will. Will. Will. >> H you end up >> H you end up >> H you end up showing up here in New York City um in showing up here in New York City um in showing up here in New York City um in your 20s. your 20s. your 20s. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And >> And >> And you have dropped out of college at this you have dropped out of college at this you have dropped out of college at this point. You have backpacked around Europe point. You have backpacked around Europe point. You have backpacked around Europe [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] >> and you have no money, >> and you have no money, >> and you have no money, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> And you have a dream though that you >> And you have a dream though that you >> And you have a dream though that you want to become an actor and you take a want to become an actor and you take a want to become an actor and you take a job as an usher at a movie theater. job as an usher at a movie theater. job as an usher at a movie theater. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And I have to say this was so >> And I have to say this was so >> And I have to say this was so interesting because interesting because interesting because what comes through is what an obsessive what comes through is what an obsessive what comes through is what an obsessive you became. You start writing down you became. You start writing down you became. You start writing down dialogue from your favorite films. What dialogue from your favorite films. What dialogue from your favorite films. What were you trying to do there? What was were you trying to do there? What was were you trying to do there? What was >> I was really trying to learn. I said, >> I was really trying to learn. I said, >> I was really trying to learn. I said, you know, I'm non-existent. And I put on you know, I'm non-existent. And I put on you know, I'm non-existent. And I put on this monkey suit and people don't even this monkey suit and people don't even this monkey suit and people don't even see you. But you're in really a temple see you. But you're in really a temple see you. But you're in really a temple of wisdom in cinema. You can see what of wisdom in cinema. You can see what of wisdom in cinema. You can see what the audience reacts to, where they the audience reacts to, where they the audience reacts to, where they laugh, they don't, who gets up, why do laugh, they don't, who gets up, why do laugh, they don't, who gets up, why do they get up, you listen to them talk they get up, you listen to them talk they get up, you listen to them talk about the film, and every day was about the film, and every day was about the film, and every day was different. And then I started to record different. And then I started to record different. And then I started to record it, write it down. And I I I lived it, write it down. And I I I lived it, write it down. And I I I lived literally in a it was almost like a literally in a it was almost like a literally in a it was almost like a cell. It was a very tiny like maybe 8 by cell. It was a very tiny like maybe 8 by cell. It was a very tiny like maybe 8 by 9 ft room. So I'd sit on my bed. That's 9 ft room. So I'd sit on my bed. That's 9 ft room. So I'd sit on my bed. That's all we had. There was and I'd have these all we had. There was and I'd have these all we had. There was and I'd have these [clears throat] old record albums of

[clears throat] old record albums of [clears throat] old record albums of traffic and blood, sweat, and tears. And traffic and blood, sweat, and tears. And traffic and blood, sweat, and tears. And that was my desk and I would just that was my desk and I would just that was my desk and I would just translate notes and notes and notes and translate notes and notes and notes and translate notes and notes and notes and and sometimes I go, "Oo, what if this is and sometimes I go, "Oo, what if this is and sometimes I go, "Oo, what if this is it?" it?" it?" You're sitting in the middle of the bed You're sitting in the middle of the bed You're sitting in the middle of the bed like a fool doing something that sounds like a fool doing something that sounds like a fool doing something that sounds so stupid to anyone else. What is What so stupid to anyone else. What is What so stupid to anyone else. What is What are you just postponing the inevitable? are you just postponing the inevitable? are you just postponing the inevitable? [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] [sighs and gasps] Then that fear would come. Get away. God Then that fear would come. Get away. God damn it. It's like the thing in the damn it. It's like the thing in the damn it. It's like the thing in the psych word. [sighs and gasps] psych word. [sighs and gasps] psych word. [sighs and gasps] I'm not going to be No, don't go there. I'm not going to be No, don't go there. I'm not going to be No, don't go there. Take the fear, swallow it, and move on. Take the fear, swallow it, and move on. Take the fear, swallow it, and move on. >> Yeah. I mean, you >> Yeah. I mean, you >> Yeah. I mean, you had an apartment where there were had an apartment where there were had an apartment where there were blacked out windows where you would blacked out windows where you would blacked out windows where you would write scripts for days on end. I mean, write scripts for days on end. I mean, write scripts for days on end. I mean, it's just this it's just this it's just this >> absolutely kind of manic >> absolutely kind of manic >> absolutely kind of manic >> intensity. Um, >> intensity. Um, >> intensity. Um, and in this period you were also getting and in this period you were also getting and in this period you were also getting into altercations. You were living into altercations. You were living into altercations. You were living rough, rough, rough, >> but you were also spending your days not >> but you were also spending your days not >> but you were also spending your days not only writing but going to MoMA only writing but going to MoMA only writing but going to MoMA >> all the time.

>> all the time. >> all the time. >> And you had this deep appreciation for >> And you had this deep appreciation for >> And you had this deep appreciation for art. How did you understand these two art. How did you understand these two art. How did you understand these two sides of yourself? sides of yourself? sides of yourself? >> I don't know. I just it seems like if >> I don't know. I just it seems like if >> I don't know. I just it seems like if you're [snorts] open really open to you're [snorts] open really open to you're [snorts] open really open to different experiences I just go and buy different experiences I just go and buy different experiences I just go and buy this place and I look in there and for this place and I look in there and for this place and I look in there and for some reason I go wow the energy of the some reason I go wow the energy of the some reason I go wow the energy of the art and you look leger and all these art and you look leger and all these art and you look leger and all these incredible drawings and mones and starry incredible drawings and mones and starry incredible drawings and mones and starry nights I'm going what makes them so nights I'm going what makes them so nights I'm going what makes them so special I could do that that I go no you special I could do that that I go no you special I could do that that I go no you can't can't can't look at it closer look at it closer and look at it closer look at it closer and look at it closer look at it closer and it just started to invigorate me and it just started to invigorate me and it just started to invigorate me and then I developed this unbelievable then I developed this unbelievable then I developed this unbelievable thirst for art thirst for art thirst for art >> and which is to this very day and I >> and which is to this very day and I >> and which is to this very day and I started to uh paint and I went there so started to uh paint and I went there so started to uh paint and I went there so many times I didn't even pay anymore. I many times I didn't even pay anymore. I many times I didn't even pay anymore. I just knew everybody like come on in, you just knew everybody like come on in, you just knew everybody like come on in, you know, get out of the cold. It's almost know, get out of the cold. It's almost know, get out of the cold. It's almost as though you're going to the church of as though you're going to the church of as though you're going to the church of the brain. the brain. the brain. [snorts] You know, you're you're the [snorts] You know, you're you're the [snorts] You know, you're you're the most wisdom in the it's right here and most wisdom in the it's right here and most wisdom in the it's right here and every walking around like a in a fog.

every walking around like a in a fog. every walking around like a in a fog. What am I going to do with my life? Go What am I going to do with my life? Go What am I going to do with my life? Go in there. You might find something that in there. You might find something that in there. You might find something that will give you that will spark an will give you that will spark an will give you that will spark an interest that gets you going in that interest that gets you going in that interest that gets you going in that direction because you're going in that direction because you're going in that direction because you're going in that direction. direction. direction. >> You wrote in the book, "At my core, >> You wrote in the book, "At my core, >> You wrote in the book, "At my core, there is this simmering cauldron of there is this simmering cauldron of there is this simmering cauldron of emotion that can overflow with emotion that can overflow with emotion that can overflow with volatility, but it can also be directed volatility, but it can also be directed volatility, but it can also be directed towards deep artistic purpose." towards deep artistic purpose." towards deep artistic purpose." And I was thinking about that, those two And I was thinking about that, those two And I was thinking about that, those two sides of you, the I'm gonna sides of you, the I'm gonna sides of you, the I'm gonna hit you if you hit me, but I'm also hit you if you hit me, but I'm also hit you if you hit me, but I'm also going to go to MoMA and I'm also going going to go to MoMA and I'm also going going to go to MoMA and I'm also going to sit there and and pray at the to sit there and and pray at the to sit there and and pray at the Cathedral of Cinema. I mean, do you Cathedral of Cinema. I mean, do you Cathedral of Cinema. I mean, do you think you ever learned how to control think you ever learned how to control think you ever learned how to control that cauldron? that cauldron? that cauldron? >> It's very, very explosive. I mean, I >> It's very, very explosive. I mean, I >> It's very, very explosive. I mean, I I'll tell you the truth. And um I'll tell you the truth. And um I'll tell you the truth. And um sometimes in certain moments like in sometimes in certain moments like in sometimes in certain moments like in cinema even as an adult I'm going like cinema even as an adult I'm going like cinema even as an adult I'm going like at the end of first blood there's a big at the end of first blood there's a big at the end of first blood there's a big nervous breakdown and [snorts] I wasn't nervous breakdown and [snorts] I wasn't nervous breakdown and [snorts] I wasn't written that way you know I hadn't written that way you know I hadn't written that way you know I hadn't written [clears throat] it that way but written [clears throat] it that way but written [clears throat] it that way but then it came out I said this is coming then it came out I said this is coming then it came out I said this is coming from that cauldron and it's a a self-ind dismissed because that's the way I felt.

dismissed because that's the way I felt. I was always the worst thing you can say I was always the worst thing you can say I was always the worst thing you can say to me. The worst you call me ugly, call to me. The worst you call me ugly, call to me. The worst you call me ugly, call me this, call me short, call don't call me this, call me short, call don't call me this, call me short, call don't call me stupid cuz that is what my father me stupid cuz that is what my father me stupid cuz that is what my father used to say. And [clears throat] used to say. And [clears throat] used to say. And [clears throat] literally it would turn me into literally it would turn me into literally it would turn me into a [snorts] maniac to prove I'm not a [snorts] maniac to prove I'm not a [snorts] maniac to prove I'm not stupid. And I would just work and work stupid. And I would just work and work stupid. And I would just work and work and work. For example, this morning I'm and work. For example, this morning I'm and work. For example, this morning I'm 80 years old. I'm up at 5 in the morning 80 years old. I'm up at 5 in the morning 80 years old. I'm up at 5 in the morning studying my dialogue that I don't have studying my dialogue that I don't have studying my dialogue that I don't have to do for a month. to do for a month. to do for a month. >> That kind of thing. Uh, you know, it's >> That kind of thing. Uh, you know, it's >> That kind of thing. Uh, you know, it's funny that you mention um that scene in funny that you mention um that scene in funny that you mention um that scene in Rambo uh which is just an iconic scene. Rambo uh which is just an iconic scene. Rambo uh which is just an iconic scene. I was just watching it again um I was just watching it again um I was just watching it again um >> yesterday. Yeah. >> yesterday. Yeah. >> yesterday. Yeah. >> And nobody went out. No one helped ME >> And nobody went out. No one helped ME >> And nobody went out. No one helped ME SAY I WANT to go home. I want to go SAY I WANT to go home. I want to go SAY I WANT to go home. I want to go home. We just call my I want to go home, home. We just call my I want to go home, home. We just call my I want to go home, Johnny. I want to drop my Chevy. I SAID Johnny. I want to drop my Chevy. I SAID Johnny. I want to drop my Chevy. I SAID WHAT? I CAN'T FIND YOUR LEGS. WHAT? I CAN'T FIND YOUR LEGS. WHAT? I CAN'T FIND YOUR LEGS. You are just filled with rage and grief. You are just filled with rage and grief. You are just filled with rage and grief. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it just translates viscerally onto >> And it just translates viscerally onto >> And it just translates viscerally onto the screen.

the screen. the screen. >> It wasn't written that way though. You >> It wasn't written that way though. You >> It wasn't written that way though. You just just just >> were tapping into that culture. >> were tapping into that culture. >> were tapping into that culture. >> It just it Yeah. I you know I thought I >> It just it Yeah. I you know I thought I >> It just it Yeah. I you know I thought I started it was the way it was written is started it was the way it was written is started it was the way it was written is I'm supposed to commit suicide in a very I'm supposed to commit suicide in a very I'm supposed to commit suicide in a very cool manner. [clears throat] cool manner. [clears throat] cool manner. [clears throat] >> I go no. Wait a minute. There's >> I go no. Wait a minute. There's >> I go no. Wait a minute. There's thousands and thousands of men missing thousands and thousands of men missing thousands and thousands of men missing parts of their bodies that literally parts of their bodies that literally parts of their bodies that literally actually thought they were doing actually thought they were doing actually thought they were doing something worthwhile. They were something worthwhile. They were something worthwhile. They were following the rules and orders of their following the rules and orders of their following the rules and orders of their country. Then when they come back, country. Then when they come back, country. Then when they come back, they're looked at as aberrations, they're looked at as aberrations, they're looked at as aberrations, Frankenstein's monsters. Then I start to Frankenstein's monsters. Then I start to Frankenstein's monsters. Then I start to identify that's what I felt like growing identify that's what I felt like growing identify that's what I felt like growing up kind of a thing. and this kind of up kind of a thing. and this kind of up kind of a thing. and this kind of rage that they must feel that it's not rage that they must feel that it's not rage that they must feel that it's not their parents, it's their country that their parents, it's their country that their parents, it's their country that is scorning them. Their real parent, the is scorning them. Their real parent, the is scorning them. Their real parent, the ones they literally lost blood and ones they literally lost blood and ones they literally lost blood and friends and died for and were mutilated friends and died for and were mutilated friends and died for and were mutilated and you can't say nice try, thank you. and you can't say nice try, thank you. and you can't say nice try, thank you. Nothing. [snorts] So this kind of and I Nothing. [snorts] So this kind of and I Nothing. [snorts] So this kind of and I really identified with this dismissive really identified with this dismissive really identified with this dismissive attitude that I grew up with all the attitude that I grew up with all the attitude that I grew up with all the time. And boy, when I look at that that time. And boy, when I look at that that time. And boy, when I look at that that footage, I look distorted. I mean, you footage, I look distorted. I mean, you footage, I look distorted. I mean, you it was the eyes [snorts] thing. I mean, it was the eyes [snorts] thing. I mean, it was the eyes [snorts] thing. I mean, I was gone for a few seconds. And you're I was gone for a few seconds. And you're I was gone for a few seconds. And you're lucky enough sometimes in acting or lucky enough sometimes in acting or lucky enough sometimes in acting or painting or writing or anything where painting or writing or anything where painting or writing or anything where you you you can't where you just subliminally lose can't where you just subliminally lose can't where you just subliminally lose yourself. You do not know where you are.

yourself. You do not know where you are. yourself. You do not know where you are. You know, people say, "Oh, maybe it You know, people say, "Oh, maybe it You know, people say, "Oh, maybe it happens in sex for two seconds where happens in sex for two seconds where happens in sex for two seconds where you're literally blanked out. you're literally blanked out. you're literally blanked out. >> What was that?" You know, kind of a >> What was that?" You know, kind of a >> What was that?" You know, kind of a thing. Well, when you have that moment thing. Well, when you have that moment thing. Well, when you have that moment in acting where is it over in acting where is it over in acting where is it over [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] >> was it one take or was >> was it one take or was >> was it one take or was >> it one take? >> it one take? >> it one take? >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. Um, Um, Um, just to just to come back to this period just to just to come back to this period just to just to come back to this period that you were in your apartment with the that you were in your apartment with the that you were in your apartment with the blacked out windows and you're trying to blacked out windows and you're trying to blacked out windows and you're trying to make it as an actor. You get a lot of make it as an actor. You get a lot of make it as an actor. You get a lot of rejections because of the way you look, rejections because of the way you look, rejections because of the way you look, right? right? right? >> And you write Rocky for yourself. Um, >> And you write Rocky for yourself. Um, >> And you write Rocky for yourself. Um, and the studios are very excited for the and the studios are very excited for the and the studios are very excited for the script. And it's well known the story script. And it's well known the story script. And it's well known the story that the studio ended up trying to pay that the studio ended up trying to pay that the studio ended up trying to pay you more and more money not to be in the you more and more money not to be in the you more and more money not to be in the film. They wanted James Khan. They film. They wanted James Khan. They film. They wanted James Khan. They wanted Ryan O'Neal, but they give it to wanted Ryan O'Neal, but they give it to wanted Ryan O'Neal, but they give it to you because you hold out again because you because you hold out again because you because you hold out again because you had this sense that this was like you had this sense that this was like you had this sense that this was like your last chance. your last chance. your last chance. >> This was it. I was done. I had, you >> This was it. I was done. I had, you >> This was it. I was done. I had, you know, less than 100 bucks, 106 bucks in know, less than 100 bucks, 106 bucks in know, less than 100 bucks, 106 bucks in the bank. And [clears throat] there was the bank. And [clears throat] there was the bank. And [clears throat] there was something and I don't know if it was something and I don't know if it was something and I don't know if it was spiritual but I you know I said God man spiritual but I you know I said God man spiritual but I you know I said God man [sighs] [sighs] [sighs] I know in my heart that [snorts] I know in my heart that [snorts] I know in my heart that [snorts] I will regret this for the rest of my I will regret this for the rest of my I will regret this for the rest of my life and [clears throat] I will be more life and [clears throat] I will be more life and [clears throat] I will be more of a broken man than if I had never done of a broken man than if I had never done of a broken man than if I had never done this in the first place. And I don't this in the first place. And I don't this in the first place. And I don't know why I knew cuz I had no success.

know why I knew cuz I had no success. know why I knew cuz I had no success. You know I was green really green. You know I was green really green. You know I was green really green. and they had every right not to want to and they had every right not to want to and they had every right not to want to use me. If someone came into me and did use me. If someone came into me and did use me. If someone came into me and did the same thing and looked like me and the same thing and looked like me and the same thing and looked like me and slurred and all that go, come on, man. slurred and all that go, come on, man. slurred and all that go, come on, man. You're not acceptable to a lot of You're not acceptable to a lot of You're not acceptable to a lot of different people in this country. You're different people in this country. You're different people in this country. You're But I don't know why. I just knew that But I don't know why. I just knew that But I don't know why. I just knew that this is the crossroad. This is this is this is the crossroad. This is this is this is the crossroad. This is this is the bridge. And if you don't cross it, the bridge. And if you don't cross it, the bridge. And if you don't cross it, ma'am, then jump off it because I'm I'm ma'am, then jump off it because I'm I'm ma'am, then jump off it because I'm I'm not going to have someone else do it not going to have someone else do it not going to have someone else do it because I know I I hate I kill myself. I because I know I I hate I kill myself. I because I know I I hate I kill myself. I really wouldn't be emotionally that is. really wouldn't be emotionally that is. really wouldn't be emotionally that is. >> No, I get it. I get it. Can I ask you >> No, I get it. I get it. Can I ask you >> No, I get it. I get it. Can I ask you just um about this thing that happened just um about this thing that happened just um about this thing that happened during Rocky? This is your big break. during Rocky? This is your big break. during Rocky? This is your big break. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You have sacrificed everything for it. >> You have sacrificed everything for it. >> You have sacrificed everything for it. They give you the part. They give you the part. They give you the part. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You're a nobody. >> You're a nobody. >> You're a nobody. This is Everything's writing on the This is Everything's writing on the This is Everything's writing on the movie. and you cast your dad as the movie. and you cast your dad as the movie. and you cast your dad as the timekeeper who rings the bell in the timekeeper who rings the bell in the timekeeper who rings the bell in the climactic boxing match.

If this is what the whole movie is going If this is what the whole movie is going to towards to towards to towards and you bring in someone with whom and you bring in someone with whom and you bring in someone with whom you've had this incredibly difficult you've had this incredibly difficult you've had this incredibly difficult relationship relationship relationship and it turned into a mess. I mean, and it turned into a mess. I mean, and it turned into a mess. I mean, [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] >> why did you let him back in? >> why did you let him back in? >> why did you let him back in? >> I was just like, I just want you to love >> I was just like, I just want you to love >> I was just like, I just want you to love me for a little bit. a little bit like me for a little bit. a little bit like me for a little bit. a little bit like look what I did. Share it with me. I look what I did. Share it with me. I look what I did. Share it with me. I [snorts] know you thought I was a fool [snorts] know you thought I was a fool [snorts] know you thought I was a fool my whole life, but here we are. This is my whole life, but here we are. This is my whole life, but here we are. This is not a joke. And he didn't ring the bell not a joke. And he didn't ring the bell not a joke. And he didn't ring the bell properly. And I kept fighting and properly. And I kept fighting and properly. And I kept fighting and fighting and fighting, you know, when fighting and fighting, you know, when fighting and fighting, you know, when everything's choreographed. And it's everything's choreographed. And it's everything's choreographed. And it's like 1 2 3 4 bell, not 6 7 8 9 10. So like 1 2 3 4 bell, not 6 7 8 9 10. So like 1 2 3 4 bell, not 6 7 8 9 10. So Carl Weathers is like, "What's going Carl Weathers is like, "What's going Carl Weathers is like, "What's going on?" like you're throwing punches and on?" like you're throwing punches and on?" like you're throwing punches and you're trying to add lib and then it you're trying to add lib and then it you're trying to add lib and then it looks really fake. You know what I mean? looks really fake. You know what I mean? looks really fake. You know what I mean? I go ring the bell whoever yell at me I go ring the bell whoever yell at me I go ring the bell whoever yell at me and like it became like I said, "Oh god, and like it became like I said, "Oh god, and like it became like I said, "Oh god, a really bad Italian drama." And of a really bad Italian drama." And of a really bad Italian drama." And of course it ended up in an altercation by course it ended up in an altercation by course it ended up in an altercation by the end of the round. You know, it was the end of the round. You know, it was the end of the round. You know, it was it got really nasty, but for a moment it got really nasty, but for a moment it got really nasty, but for a moment [snorts] I thought Jesus he'd be proud.

[snorts] I thought Jesus he'd be proud. [snorts] I thought Jesus he'd be proud. >> And later you end up inviting your mom >> And later you end up inviting your mom >> And later you end up inviting your mom to the Oscars. to the Oscars. to the Oscars. >> Yeah. for Rocky. So, so, so then >> Yeah. for Rocky. So, so, so then >> Yeah. for Rocky. So, so, so then you call her up and you say, "Hey, I you call her up and you say, "Hey, I you call her up and you say, "Hey, I this film I'm might win an Oscar for this film I'm might win an Oscar for this film I'm might win an Oscar for it." it." it." >> Who's in it? I can't [laughter] >> Who's in it? I can't [laughter] >> Who's in it? I can't [laughter] it it it >> and she blows you off. >> and she blows you off. >> and she blows you off. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Can I ask you about your mom >> Can I ask you about your mom >> Can I ask you about your mom specifically because specifically because specifically because as we've discussed here, she was as we've discussed here, she was as we've discussed here, she was difficult. difficult. difficult. This is putting it lightly. Um, you're This is putting it lightly. Um, you're This is putting it lightly. Um, you're quite scathing about her in the book. quite scathing about her in the book. quite scathing about her in the book. And then in the 1990s, she becomes like And then in the 1990s, she becomes like And then in the 1990s, she becomes like a celebrity psychic. a celebrity psychic. a celebrity psychic. >> I'm Jackie Stallone, psychic astrologer >> I'm Jackie Stallone, psychic astrologer >> I'm Jackie Stallone, psychic astrologer to the stars. I have predicted fame and to the stars. I have predicted fame and to the stars. I have predicted fame and fortune from movie stars and celebrities fortune from movie stars and celebrities fortune from movie stars and celebrities all over the world. And I just wondered all over the world. And I just wondered all over the world. And I just wondered to jump a little later into your life to jump a little later into your life to jump a little later into your life with and your relationship with your with and your relationship with your with and your relationship with your parents. How did you manage the dynamics parents. How did you manage the dynamics parents. How did you manage the dynamics when when when you know she you know she you know she sees proximity to your fame as a sees proximity to your fame as a sees proximity to your fame as a financial opportunity? I mean, that must financial opportunity? I mean, that must financial opportunity? I mean, that must have been a hard dynamic to manage.

have been a hard dynamic to manage. have been a hard dynamic to manage. >> Very hard. It was very hard because she >> Very hard. It was very hard because she >> Very hard. It was very hard because she had been married three more times. And had been married three more times. And had been married three more times. And then I saw her then I saw her then I saw her posing as a psychic with a turban and posing as a psychic with a turban and posing as a psychic with a turban and rhinestones and this over inflated sense rhinestones and this over inflated sense rhinestones and this over inflated sense of like buffoonery. Or [snorts] she of like buffoonery. Or [snorts] she of like buffoonery. Or [snorts] she would go on Howard Stern and mock my would go on Howard Stern and mock my would go on Howard Stern and mock my father and call him like terrible father and call him like terrible father and call him like terrible things. And then they get on the phone things. And then they get on the phone things. And then they get on the phone and I have my father and mother fighting and I have my father and mother fighting and I have my father and mother fighting on Howard's St. What other guy has to go on Howard's St. What other guy has to go on Howard's St. What other guy has to go through this? through this? through this? >> Yeah, this was 1992. They had this >> Yeah, this was 1992. They had this >> Yeah, this was 1992. They had this horrible on air argument. horrible on air argument. horrible on air argument. >> But you two produced a movie star. Let's >> But you two produced a movie star. Let's >> But you two produced a movie star. Let's say you guys did produce a movie star. say you guys did produce a movie star. say you guys did produce a movie star. >> No help from him. Any guy could have >> No help from him. Any guy could have >> No help from him. Any guy could have done the job in 3 seconds. He didn't done the job in 3 seconds. He didn't done the job in 3 seconds. He didn't even want Sylvester. He tried to get me even want Sylvester. He tried to get me even want Sylvester. He tried to get me to have an abortion. to have an abortion. to have an abortion. >> Really? >> Really? >> Really? >> It's unbelievable. Why would you go on >> It's unbelievable. Why would you go on >> It's unbelievable. Why would you go on and humiliate yourself? You're and humiliate yourself? You're and humiliate yourself? You're humiliating me, my children. Stop. I'll humiliating me, my children. Stop. I'll humiliating me, my children. Stop. I'll pay you anything to do whatever you pay you anything to do whatever you pay you anything to do whatever you want. The finest restaurants, anything. want. The finest restaurants, anything. want. The finest restaurants, anything. Just live your life and just try to be Just live your life and just try to be Just live your life and just try to be proud. He goes, "Why aren't you proud of proud. He goes, "Why aren't you proud of proud. He goes, "Why aren't you proud of me?" I went, "There it is." I'll never me?" I went, "There it is." I'll never me?" I went, "There it is." I'll never forget. I asked, I said, "Have you ever forget. I asked, I said, "Have you ever forget. I asked, I said, "Have you ever done anything wrong? I mean, do you have done anything wrong? I mean, do you have done anything wrong? I mean, do you have any regrets?" He goes, "No.

any regrets?" He goes, "No. any regrets?" He goes, "No. Why?" I went, "Wow, Why?" I went, "Wow, Why?" I went, "Wow, >> I live on regrets. >> I live on regrets. >> I live on regrets. >> I can make a castle out of regrets." I >> I can make a castle out of regrets." I >> I can make a castle out of regrets." I mean, when people say I have no regrets, mean, when people say I have no regrets, mean, when people say I have no regrets, I go, "Bullshit. Come on. Really? You're I go, "Bullshit. Come on. Really? You're I go, "Bullshit. Come on. Really? You're that perfect? Everything was just that perfect? Everything was just that perfect? Everything was just right." And it that's just the way it right." And it that's just the way it right." And it that's just the way it was to the day she died. And the last was to the day she died. And the last was to the day she died. And the last effort um at the Oscars, I thought effort um at the Oscars, I thought effort um at the Oscars, I thought 10 months earlier, I was basically 10 months earlier, I was basically 10 months earlier, I was basically homeless. Now we're with incredible homeless. Now we're with incredible homeless. Now we're with incredible competition and you don't want to go. competition and you don't want to go. competition and you don't want to go. See, here's here it is. I'll put it in a See, here's here it is. I'll put it in a See, here's here it is. I'll put it in a nutshell. She never wanted to be alone nutshell. She never wanted to be alone nutshell. She never wanted to be alone with me ever with me ever with me ever >> and she didn't go and she stuck to her >> and she didn't go and she stuck to her >> and she didn't go and she stuck to her guns guns guns >> and it it really hurt me hard. I I won't >> and it it really hurt me hard. I I won't >> and it it really hurt me hard. I I won't I see I won't go there anymore and you I see I won't go there anymore and you I see I won't go there anymore and you know [snorts] that kind of uh but it it know [snorts] that kind of uh but it it know [snorts] that kind of uh but it it does affect you. My wife you never I I does affect you. My wife you never I I does affect you. My wife you never I I know it's hard to get over it. It's very know it's hard to get over it. It's very know it's hard to get over it. It's very h nagging. It's a nagging scar that h nagging. It's a nagging scar that h nagging. It's a nagging scar that won't fully close and every now and then won't fully close and every now and then won't fully close and every now and then it weeps and you it weeps and you it weeps and you but again that's your cross to bear.

but again that's your cross to bear. but again that's your cross to bear. Maybe that's why you had this certain Maybe that's why you had this certain Maybe that's why you had this certain sort of um selective rage. sort of um selective rage. sort of um selective rage. >> Did you go to therapy later in your >> Did you go to therapy later in your >> Did you go to therapy later in your life? life? life? >> No. I said it's not going to help. >> No. I said it's not going to help. >> No. I said it's not going to help. >> It's just not going to help because um >> It's just not going to help because um >> It's just not going to help because um it doesn't go away. It you you it you it doesn't go away. It you you it you it doesn't go away. It you you it you cover with all this subtifuge and you cover with all this subtifuge and you cover with all this subtifuge and you know ideology and intellectual this and know ideology and intellectual this and know ideology and intellectual this and that and you know breathing and that and you know breathing and that and you know breathing and meditation until that moment late at meditation until that moment late at meditation until that moment late at night night night and you're right back and now you're in and you're right back and now you're in and you're right back and now you're in an anxiety. Do you ever have anxiety? an anxiety. Do you ever have anxiety? an anxiety. Do you ever have anxiety? >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> All that anxiety everyone has it's >> All that anxiety everyone has it's >> All that anxiety everyone has it's coming from something that was so coming from something that was so coming from something that was so deeprooted. deeprooted. deeprooted. >> Did tell me about when you first >> Did tell me about when you first >> Did tell me about when you first suffered anxiety. [snorts] It was the suffered anxiety. [snorts] It was the suffered anxiety. [snorts] It was the first time I did is when I was uh 36. first time I did is when I was uh 36. first time I did is when I was uh 36. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And I was uh watching dailies >> And I was uh watching dailies >> And I was uh watching dailies and then all of a sudden I stood up and and then all of a sudden I stood up and and then all of a sudden I stood up and my the hair on my neck went up. I my the hair on my neck went up. I my the hair on my neck went up. I started getting hot. I go I'm dying. started getting hot. I go I'm dying. started getting hot. I go I'm dying. This is it. I'm on my way out. Heart This is it. I'm on my way out. Heart This is it. I'm on my way out. Heart bang down I went. Took a knee, crawled, bang down I went. Took a knee, crawled, bang down I went. Took a knee, crawled, rolled over and then now I'm in this rolled over and then now I'm in this rolled over and then now I'm in this dark like movie theater.

dark like movie theater. dark like movie theater. Oh my god. where where the this Oh my god. where where the this Oh my god. where where the this come from and then it you know it come from and then it you know it come from and then it you know it happened again and again and again then happened again and again and again then happened again and again and again then it went away for five years it went away for five years it went away for five years >> and then it always seems to happen like >> and then it always seems to happen like >> and then it always seems to happen like as you're ready to go on the Today show as you're ready to go on the Today show as you're ready to go on the Today show like up boom 8 seconds and you feel it like up boom 8 seconds and you feel it like up boom 8 seconds and you feel it coming on coming on coming on >> anybody got a Xanax two >> anybody got a Xanax two >> anybody got a Xanax two so you're just sitting there holding his so you're just sitting there holding his so you're just sitting there holding his chair going [snorts] chair going [snorts] chair going [snorts] I go I I feel for it I mean I I it's not I go I I feel for it I mean I I it's not I go I I feel for it I mean I I it's not a joke a joke a joke >> you Oh, anxiety. It's like, no. >> you Oh, anxiety. It's like, no. >> you Oh, anxiety. It's like, no. >> I think people would find it very >> I think people would find it very >> I think people would find it very heartening that you heartening that you heartening that you have experienced that. have experienced that. have experienced that. >> Oh my god. [snorts] Especially as I got >> Oh my god. [snorts] Especially as I got >> Oh my god. [snorts] Especially as I got older and it was weird when I'm in a older and it was weird when I'm in a older and it was weird when I'm in a crowd. I be with my wife at an art crowd. I be with my wife at an art crowd. I be with my wife at an art exposition and the room is filling up, exposition and the room is filling up, exposition and the room is filling up, you know, it's getting more and more and you know, it's getting more and more and you know, it's getting more and more and more. more. more. >> And then I go, I'm I'm going I'm going >> And then I go, I'm I'm going I'm going >> And then I go, I'm I'm going I'm going down. And she goes, let's get out of down. And she goes, let's get out of down. And she goes, let's get out of here. And literally I just make it to here. And literally I just make it to here. And literally I just make it to the alley. Boom. Get down on one knee.

the alley. Boom. Get down on one knee. the alley. Boom. Get down on one knee. [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] Did it again. I was at the mayor's Did it again. I was at the mayor's Did it again. I was at the mayor's office in Philadelphia receiving some office in Philadelphia receiving some office in Philadelphia receiving some award and everyone sort of crowded me in award and everyone sort of crowded me in award and everyone sort of crowded me in the corner. I said I can't the corner. I said I can't the corner. I said I can't [clears throat] I have to go. Thank you [clears throat] I have to go. Thank you [clears throat] I have to go. Thank you very much. very much. very much. And I just made it out of there and I go And I just made it out of there and I go And I just made it out of there and I go h [snorts and clears throat] what is h [snorts and clears throat] what is h [snorts and clears throat] what is that indicative of? It never bothered that indicative of? It never bothered that indicative of? It never bothered you before. So there's there's something you before. So there's there's something you before. So there's there's something still still still bubbling inside festering. It's like bubbling inside festering. It's like bubbling inside festering. It's like it's a marvel for example that we still it's a marvel for example that we still it's a marvel for example that we still have magma and lava 4 billion years have magma and lava 4 billion years have magma and lava 4 billion years later in the center of the earth. How later in the center of the earth. How later in the center of the earth. How long does it take to cool an egg? I mean long does it take to cool an egg? I mean long does it take to cool an egg? I mean my god it's go. So the same thing our my god it's go. So the same thing our my god it's go. So the same thing our emotions are always on the verge of emotions are always on the verge of emotions are always on the verge of eruption. You know eruption. You know eruption. You know >> despite having such a >> despite having such a >> despite having such a I don't even know the word anymore. um I don't even know the word anymore. um I don't even know the word anymore. um upsetting upbringing. You've become a upsetting upbringing. You've become a upsetting upbringing. You've become a father of five. father of five. father of five. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What did you learn about being a good >> What did you learn about being a good >> What did you learn about being a good parent considering you didn't really at parent considering you didn't really at parent considering you didn't really at all have role models for that?

all have role models for that? all have role models for that? >> I really wasn't a very good parent. My >> I really wasn't a very good parent. My >> I really wasn't a very good parent. My wife, wife, wife, >> my Jennifer is the greatest woman ever >> my Jennifer is the greatest woman ever >> my Jennifer is the greatest woman ever before. I mean, seriously, she's just before. I mean, seriously, she's just before. I mean, seriously, she's just like my guardian angel. I would have like my guardian angel. I would have like my guardian angel. I would have been dead like three times for real. and been dead like three times for real. and been dead like three times for real. and she just is the most giving. I don't she just is the most giving. I don't she just is the most giving. I don't have that gear of just abandonment of have that gear of just abandonment of have that gear of just abandonment of your own personal uh self for someone your own personal uh self for someone your own personal uh self for someone else. It's really unbelievable. And she else. It's really unbelievable. And she else. It's really unbelievable. And she raised my daughters that way. In my raised my daughters that way. In my raised my daughters that way. In my first marriage, it wasn't like that. And first marriage, it wasn't like that. And first marriage, it wasn't like that. And I was um [snorts] in my warrior mode. I I was um [snorts] in my warrior mode. I I was um [snorts] in my warrior mode. I was out, oh, let's conquer the world. was out, oh, let's conquer the world. was out, oh, let's conquer the world. You know, this is your moment. And You know, this is your moment. And You know, this is your moment. And everything fell by the wayside. And it everything fell by the wayside. And it everything fell by the wayside. And it was just um measly manner of existence. was just um measly manner of existence. was just um measly manner of existence. It really was. It was uh It really was. It was uh It really was. It was uh the reality was the movie setting. the reality was the movie setting. the reality was the movie setting. The surreal world was my life. The surreal world was my life. The surreal world was my life. >> I have no control out here. I'm out of >> I have no control out here. I'm out of >> I have no control out here. I'm out of everyone's beckoning call. I I don't everyone's beckoning call. I I don't everyone's beckoning call. I I don't like it. I couldn't wait to work again.

like it. I couldn't wait to work again. like it. I couldn't wait to work again. >> You know, terrible to say that, but it's >> You know, terrible to say that, but it's >> You know, terrible to say that, but it's true. true. true. Um, Um, Um, you suffered an unimaginable loss in you suffered an unimaginable loss in you suffered an unimaginable loss in 2012 when your eldest son, Sage, died. 2012 when your eldest son, Sage, died. 2012 when your eldest son, Sage, died. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> He had an undiagnosed heart condition >> He had an undiagnosed heart condition >> He had an undiagnosed heart condition that killed him when he was only 36. And that killed him when he was only 36. And that killed him when he was only 36. And I just want to say I'm so sorry. I just want to say I'm so sorry. I just want to say I'm so sorry. >> Oh, thank you. >> Oh, thank you. >> Oh, thank you. >> I imagine that must have profoundly >> I imagine that must have profoundly >> I imagine that must have profoundly changed you. Oh, changed you. Oh, changed you. Oh, you know you know you know the thing is, you know, you have so many the thing is, you know, you have so many the thing is, you know, you have so many episodes of guilt like what could I have episodes of guilt like what could I have episodes of guilt like what could I have done? Should I have been there? If I did done? Should I have been there? If I did done? Should I have been there? If I did that, if I went right or went left, I that, if I went right or went left, I that, if I went right or went left, I had no idea that that I mean it was had no idea that that I mean it was had no idea that that I mean it was stunning. Like I'll never forget stunning. Like I'll never forget stunning. Like I'll never forget it was so cold. my it was so cold. my it was so cold. my mother's new husband. I never met was a mother's new husband. I never met was a mother's new husband. I never met was a doctor. I get a phone call. doctor. I get a phone call. doctor. I get a phone call. Friday [snorts] the 13th. He goes, "Sly, Friday [snorts] the 13th. He goes, "Sly, Friday [snorts] the 13th. He goes, "Sly, Steven." You know, [snorts] um, he's Steven." You know, [snorts] um, he's Steven." You know, [snorts] um, he's gone.

gone. gone. Who's gone? He goes, "Save. He's gone." Who's gone? He goes, "Save. He's gone." Who's gone? He goes, "Save. He's gone." I gone where? He's died. He's gone. I'm I gone where? He's died. He's gone. I'm I gone where? He's died. He's gone. I'm sorry. Click. sorry. Click. sorry. Click. I said, "Is this possible?" I said, "Is this possible?" I said, "Is this possible?" >> That's how you found out. >> That's how you found out. >> That's how you found out. >> That's how Yeah, that's how he's gone. >> That's how Yeah, that's how he's gone. >> That's how Yeah, that's how he's gone. He's gone. Dead. Sorry. [snorts] And it He's gone. Dead. Sorry. [snorts] And it He's gone. Dead. Sorry. [snorts] And it wasn't, wasn't, wasn't, you know, it goes to the funeral. It you know, it goes to the funeral. It you know, it goes to the funeral. It goes through all the again, you know, goes through all the again, you know, goes through all the again, you know, dealing with the mother, you know, with dealing with the mother, you know, with dealing with the mother, you know, with your life in the present. And it's a I your life in the present. And it's a I your life in the present. And it's a I mean, it just takes you into a whole mean, it just takes you into a whole mean, it just takes you into a whole other world. And I'll never forget I go, other world. And I'll never forget I go, other world. And I'll never forget I go, "Wow, I'm holding it together. "Wow, I'm holding it together. "Wow, I'm holding it together. >> [sighs] >> [sighs] >> [sighs] >> when's it going to happen? You know, >> when's it going to happen? You know, >> when's it going to happen? You know, when when when [snorts] And then [snorts] And then [snorts] And then about a week later, I was all alone in about a week later, I was all alone in about a week later, I was all alone in my room my room my room and a whale came out of me. I've never and a whale came out of me. I've never and a whale came out of me. I've never heard before since. There was just such heard before since. There was just such heard before since. There was just such pain pain pain and grief and guilt and it was just a and grief and guilt and it was just a and grief and guilt and it was just a [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] just it was not human.

just it was not human. just it was not human. It really wasn't. It really wasn't. It really wasn't. But all I can say is that he was a very But all I can say is that he was a very But all I can say is that he was a very kind kid. He had a [clears throat] great kind kid. He had a [clears throat] great kind kid. He had a [clears throat] great mother, a nice, you know, we would have mother, a nice, you know, we would have mother, a nice, you know, we would have done wonderful things in the future. I I done wonderful things in the future. I I done wonderful things in the future. I I just had no idea that he had something just had no idea that he had something just had no idea that he had something that you would expect an very advanced that you would expect an very advanced that you would expect an very advanced adult to have. But no, you don't get adult to have. But no, you don't get adult to have. But no, you don't get over that. No, [sighs and gasps] [sighs and gasps] >> I'm sorry. Back to Rocky. Back to Rocky. >> Back to Rocky. It got 10 Oscar nominations. It got 10 Oscar nominations. >> It ended up winning best picture. Um, >> It ended up winning best picture. Um, >> It ended up winning best picture. Um, and and and it's not just the film, but you end up it's not just the film, but you end up it's not just the film, but you end up capturing the public's imagination capturing the public's imagination capturing the public's imagination because it was this fairy tale story.

because it was this fairy tale story. because it was this fairy tale story. [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] And I'm very interested in the in you looking back in the in you looking back >> Yeah. at this transition from becoming a >> Yeah. at this transition from becoming a >> Yeah. at this transition from becoming a struggling actor to suddenly becoming struggling actor to suddenly becoming struggling actor to suddenly becoming the hottest star in Hollywood because in the hottest star in Hollywood because in the hottest star in Hollywood because in the book there is this picture of you the book there is this picture of you the book there is this picture of you which is very poignant and the caption which is very poignant and the caption which is very poignant and the caption reads my last day of being anonymous. reads my last day of being anonymous. reads my last day of being anonymous. >> That's right. And I thought, what an >> That's right. And I thought, what an >> That's right. And I thought, what an interesting [clears throat] thing to put interesting [clears throat] thing to put interesting [clears throat] thing to put in a book um that you can delineate that in a book um that you can delineate that in a book um that you can delineate that moment moment moment >> moment, >> moment, >> moment, >> you know, where you could walk the >> you know, where you could walk the >> you know, where you could walk the streets and no one would know Sylvester streets and no one would know Sylvester streets and no one would know Sylvester Salone Salone Salone >> and then after that was never going to >> and then after that was never going to >> and then after that was never going to be the case again. be the case again. be the case again. >> No, it was a tsunami. >> No, it was a tsunami. >> No, it was a tsunami. The movie started at 12:00 noon [snorts] The movie started at 12:00 noon [snorts] The movie started at 12:00 noon [snorts] >> and at 2 >> and at 2 >> and at 2 people started coming. They saw me and people started coming. They saw me and people started coming. They saw me and it was a deluge of being completely it was a deluge of being completely it was a deluge of being completely obscure [laughter] for 30 years about obscure [laughter] for 30 years about obscure [laughter] for 30 years about just walking through being a non entity just walking through being a non entity just walking through being a non entity to now being this celebrity and someone to now being this celebrity and someone to now being this celebrity and someone who has tapped into their hearts and who has tapped into their hearts and who has tapped into their hearts and more than just a movie like hey there more than just a movie like hey there more than just a movie like hey there was a great action film. It was like was a great action film. It was like was a great action film. It was like that's my story that's this that's that.

that's my story that's this that's that. that's my story that's this that's that. And I went, "Oh my god." And I could And I went, "Oh my god." And I could And I went, "Oh my god." And I could hear the applause. [snorts] Who applause hear the applause. [snorts] Who applause hear the applause. [snorts] Who applause in a movie theater? It was like a an in a movie theater? It was like a an in a movie theater? It was like a an event. [clears throat] event. [clears throat] event. [clears throat] And I'm looking at my brother. So it's And I'm looking at my brother. So it's And I'm looking at my brother. So it's you're in for it now, pal. you're in for it now, pal. you're in for it now, pal. >> And [clears throat] that's it. Really >> And [clears throat] that's it. Really >> And [clears throat] that's it. Really was just was just was just overnight. overnight. overnight. It was just overnight. I I don't know if It was just overnight. I I don't know if It was just overnight. I I don't know if [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] it's never happened again, obviously. it's never happened again, obviously. it's never happened again, obviously. It's just one of it's the rarest It's just one of it's the rarest It's just one of it's the rarest combination of obscurity to fame in a combination of obscurity to fame in a combination of obscurity to fame in a matter of two hours that's documented matter of two hours that's documented matter of two hours that's documented [laughter] like [clears throat] whoa. [laughter] like [clears throat] whoa. [laughter] like [clears throat] whoa. >> Did you look at fame as something >> Did you look at fame as something >> Did you look at fame as something in the same way as the psych word and in the same way as the psych word and in the same way as the psych word and and let me let me under let me try to and let me let me under let me try to and let me let me under let me try to explain what I mean which is this isn't explain what I mean which is this isn't explain what I mean which is this isn't going to change me or did you look at it going to change me or did you look at it going to change me or did you look at it as this is everything I'd ever wanted? as this is everything I'd ever wanted? as this is everything I'd ever wanted? Hm. Hm. Hm. Well, Well, Well, I don't know if it changed me, but it I don't know if it changed me, but it I don't know if it changed me, but it allowed allowed allowed >> breaks some people.

>> breaks some people. >> breaks some people. >> It Well, it it didn't break me. What it >> It Well, it it didn't break me. What it >> It Well, it it didn't break me. What it did is it it made me combative. M did is it it made me combative. M did is it it made me combative. M >> it made me very um I told you so >> it made me very um I told you so >> it made me very um I told you so revengeful, spiteful, revengeful, spiteful, revengeful, spiteful, >> and um all the rejection, everything >> and um all the rejection, everything >> and um all the rejection, everything else. It it was I I oh my god, it was so else. It it was I I oh my god, it was so else. It it was I I oh my god, it was so insufferable. insufferable. insufferable. >> I really was even with the New York >> I really was even with the New York >> I really was even with the New York Times and oh Madame Bovery, anyone could Times and oh Madame Bovery, anyone could Times and oh Madame Bovery, anyone could write that, you know, like it was just I write that, you know, like it was just I write that, you know, like it was just I don't know. I mean, Lily was a I became don't know. I mean, Lily was a I became don't know. I mean, Lily was a I became a petulant child. Mhm. a petulant child. Mhm. a petulant child. Mhm. >> I really did. And years later, I mean, I >> I really did. And years later, I mean, I >> I really did. And years later, I mean, I I I despise myself. I'm surprised I'm I I despise myself. I'm surprised I'm I I despise myself. I'm surprised I'm still here, [laughter] you know. I still here, [laughter] you know. I still here, [laughter] you know. I managed to alienate the entire press. I managed to alienate the entire press. I managed to alienate the entire press. I really did. And people that believed in really did. And people that believed in really did. And people that believed in me and so on, I just was not uh [snorts] me and so on, I just was not uh [snorts] me and so on, I just was not uh [snorts] I was just not humble. There was no I was just not humble. There was no I was just not humble. There was no humility whatsoever. Again, it's just humility whatsoever. Again, it's just humility whatsoever. Again, it's just childhood eruptions coming to the childhood eruptions coming to the childhood eruptions coming to the surface at the most inopportune times.

surface at the most inopportune times. surface at the most inopportune times. Hm. Um, I want to talk about some of the Hm. Um, I want to talk about some of the Hm. Um, I want to talk about some of the people you worked with and came across people you worked with and came across people you worked with and came across um, in the 80s. And of course, we're um, in the 80s. And of course, we're um, in the 80s. And of course, we're going to start with Arnold going to start with Arnold going to start with Arnold Schwarzenegger, who you're now friends Schwarzenegger, who you're now friends Schwarzenegger, who you're now friends with, we should say. with, we should say. with, we should say. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, but he was a huge action star back >> Um, but he was a huge action star back >> Um, but he was a huge action star back then. then. then. >> And you said you couldn't stand to be in >> And you said you couldn't stand to be in >> And you said you couldn't stand to be in the same room. the same room. the same room. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> I mean, why did you hate him so much? >> I mean, why did you hate him so much? >> I mean, why did you hate him so much? What was it the what was it? The like, What was it the what was it? The like, What was it the what was it? The like, take me back before the take me back before the take me back before the >> He was a challenge. He was he I thought >> He was a challenge. He was he I thought >> He was a challenge. He was he I thought I had something going on. And then I I had something going on. And then I I had something going on. And then I could see this guy, this immovable could see this guy, this immovable could see this guy, this immovable force, a very confident human being. I force, a very confident human being. I force, a very confident human being. I think even more so than me and more think even more so than me and more think even more so than me and more psychological and the way he would psychological and the way he would psychological and the way he would manipulate and do things very cunningly manipulate and do things very cunningly manipulate and do things very cunningly and not in a negative way, but just and not in a negative way, but just and not in a negative way, but just shrewdly where I was blunt force. He shrewdly where I was blunt force. He shrewdly where I was blunt force. He would [snorts] mabelli and cool. And I would [snorts] mabelli and cool. And I would [snorts] mabelli and cool. And I went, "God damn it." And he's winning went, "God damn it." And he's winning went, "God damn it." And he's winning these awards and he's a bodybuilder. And these awards and he's a bodybuilder. And these awards and he's a bodybuilder. And I'm like I consider myself somewhat more I'm like I consider myself somewhat more I'm like I consider myself somewhat more of a you know of a you know of a you know >> a thespian thespian a dramaturge you >> a thespian thespian a dramaturge you >> a thespian thespian a dramaturge you kind of thing a parapathetic dramatur kind of thing a parapathetic dramatur kind of thing a parapathetic dramatur just wandering the country acting and I just wandering the country acting and I just wandering the country acting and I went wow this this is I'm going to this went wow this this is I'm going to this went wow this this is I'm going to this is my guy this is a guy I know is my guy this is a guy I know is my guy this is a guy I know [clears throat] I'm going to have [clears throat] I'm going to have [clears throat] I'm going to have trouble with period and sure enough we trouble with period and sure enough we trouble with period and sure enough we did we're just going at each other which did we're just going at each other which did we're just going at each other which turned out to be fantastic and you know turned out to be fantastic and you know turned out to be fantastic and you know I I've had some moments with with him I I've had some moments with with him I I've had some moments with with him and I'm regretful for some of the things and I'm regretful for some of the things and I'm regretful for some of the things I've said about him, but he I've said about him, but he I've said about him, but he antagonized me in a creative way and I

antagonized me in a creative way and I antagonized me in a creative way and I did to him. I was a thorn in his side. did to him. I was a thorn in his side. did to him. I was a thorn in his side. He was a thorn in my side. But it just He was a thorn in my side. But it just He was a thorn in my side. But it just forced us to keep moving higher, bigger forced us to keep moving higher, bigger forced us to keep moving higher, bigger guns, louder movies, more action, more guns, louder movies, more action, more guns, louder movies, more action, more bodies, everything until I think we bodies, everything until I think we bodies, everything until I think we really carved out a niche that'll never really carved out a niche that'll never really carved out a niche that'll never quite come around again. that certain quite come around again. that certain quite come around again. that certain 80s over-the-top action genre that he 80s over-the-top action genre that he 80s over-the-top action genre that he and I sort of pioneered. and I sort of pioneered. and I sort of pioneered. >> You did. >> You did. >> You did. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's like a creative marriage in a way. >> It's like a creative marriage in a way. >> It's like a creative marriage in a way. >> It is. I mean, so I It's like Ali and >> It is. I mean, so I It's like Ali and >> It is. I mean, so I It's like Ali and Fraser. You need that thing that that Fraser. You need that thing that that Fraser. You need that thing that that brings you to the surface that more than brings you to the surface that more than brings you to the surface that more than any other person. It just it's it's not any other person. It just it's it's not any other person. It just it's it's not even hatred. It's I this guy, [laughter] even hatred. It's I this guy, [laughter] even hatred. It's I this guy, [laughter] he woke away. He is. I dream about him. he woke away. He is. I dream about him. he woke away. He is. I dream about him. It's like I'm on his mind. He's on my It's like I'm on his mind. He's on my It's like I'm on his mind. He's on my mind. They're very rare. mind. They're very rare. mind. They're very rare. >> You know what I mean? Men get it. I'm >> You know what I mean? Men get it. I'm >> You know what I mean? Men get it. I'm sure women get it, too. But two alpha sure women get it, too. But two alpha sure women get it, too. But two alpha men who I can only relate to, men who I can only relate to, men who I can only relate to, >> it's like you can't wait >> it's like you can't wait >> it's like you can't wait >> to go against him. That kind of thing.

>> to go against him. That kind of thing. >> to go against him. That kind of thing. And then he does better than you. And And then he does better than you. And And then he does better than you. And then he just gloats on it. Oh, I see the then he just gloats on it. Oh, I see the then he just gloats on it. Oh, I see the Stallone's film didn't perform very Stallone's film didn't perform very Stallone's film didn't perform very well. Oh, oh, oh. You know, and then well. Oh, oh, oh. You know, and then well. Oh, oh, oh. You know, and then vice versa. And then eventually we end vice versa. And then eventually we end vice versa. And then eventually we end up working together in Expendables and I up working together in Expendables and I up working together in Expendables and I go on the campaign trail for him. go on the campaign trail for him. go on the campaign trail for him. >> Unbelievable. >> Unbelievable. >> Unbelievable. >> When was the moment that you two that >> When was the moment that you two that >> When was the moment that you two that you thought we put this to rest? I mean, you thought we put this to rest? I mean, you thought we put this to rest? I mean, did it just come with age and him moving did it just come with age and him moving did it just come with age and him moving into politics and just sort of into politics and just sort of into politics and just sort of >> Yeah. Yeah. At first I thought, come on, >> Yeah. Yeah. At first I thought, come on, >> Yeah. Yeah. At first I thought, come on, actors in politics, this is [snorts] oil actors in politics, this is [snorts] oil actors in politics, this is [snorts] oil and water, you know, because um we tend and water, you know, because um we tend and water, you know, because um we tend to uh actors uh really very very to uh actors uh really very very to uh actors uh really very very self-absorbed and politicians if they're self-absorbed and politicians if they're self-absorbed and politicians if they're really good should be just the opposite, really good should be just the opposite, really good should be just the opposite, >> publicly absorbed. So I did I I saw >> publicly absorbed. So I did I I saw >> publicly absorbed. So I did I I saw there's a conflict there. But he there's a conflict there. But he there's a conflict there. But he [snorts] was definitely sincere about [snorts] was definitely sincere about [snorts] was definitely sincere about it. And I don't know why, but he asked it. And I don't know why, but he asked it. And I don't know why, but he asked me, uh, we're at a cigar place. Would me, uh, we're at a cigar place. Would me, uh, we're at a cigar place. Would you like to be in an event?

you like to be in an event? you like to be in an event? [clears throat] Yeah. Why did I say [clears throat] Yeah. Why did I say [clears throat] Yeah. Why did I say that? And then sure enough, then we hit that? And then sure enough, then we hit that? And then sure enough, then we hit it off. And he's a very, very unique I it off. And he's a very, very unique I it off. And he's a very, very unique I he's one of a kind. Forget it. He's just he's one of a kind. Forget it. He's just he's one of a kind. Forget it. He's just [laughter] I'm telling you. [laughter] I'm telling you. [laughter] I'm telling you. >> So, until that moment, you really hadn't >> So, until that moment, you really hadn't >> So, until that moment, you really hadn't spent time with him. You didn't know if spent time with him. You didn't know if spent time with him. You didn't know if you even liked him. I'm telling you, we you even liked him. I'm telling you, we you even liked him. I'm telling you, we always came to blows up. It was when we always came to blows up. It was when we always came to blows up. It was when we were at Planet Hollywood, we couldn't were at Planet Hollywood, we couldn't were at Planet Hollywood, we couldn't stand stand stand >> to be in the same arena, >> to be in the same arena, >> to be in the same arena, >> right? Because in the early 90s, you >> right? Because in the early 90s, you >> right? Because in the early 90s, you founded with Bruce Willis as well, uh, founded with Bruce Willis as well, uh, founded with Bruce Willis as well, uh, Planet Hollywood, Planet Hollywood, Planet Hollywood, >> and you couldn't even, you were in >> and you couldn't even, you were in >> and you couldn't even, you were in business together, but you couldn't business together, but you couldn't business together, but you couldn't stand being in the same room. stand being in the same room. stand being in the same room. >> Oh my god. It was a I'll never forget >> Oh my god. It was a I'll never forget >> Oh my god. It was a I'll never forget there's a picture of he and I dancing there's a picture of he and I dancing there's a picture of he and I dancing and it was I think was it total recall and it was I think was it total recall and it was I think was it total recall or something and it was at the hotel dap or something and it was at the hotel dap or something and it was at the hotel dap in the afternoon it's festive and in the afternoon it's festive and in the afternoon it's festive and everyone's there oh no take a picture everyone's there oh no take a picture everyone's there oh no take a picture okay sl take a picture okay uh take a okay sl take a picture okay uh take a okay sl take a picture okay uh take a picture together he goes picture together he goes picture together he goes why don't the director why don't you why don't the director why don't you why don't the director why don't you come in here and get in the middle come in here and get in the middle come in here and get in the middle [snorts] oh man and then I grab him and [snorts] oh man and then I grab him and [snorts] oh man and then I grab him and like we're waling And he goes, like we're waling And he goes, like we're waling And he goes, to me it's the greatest picture because to me it's the greatest picture because to me it's the greatest picture because I said let's put this let's stop. You I said let's put this let's stop. You I said let's put this let's stop. You know what I mean? We're let's just do know what I mean? We're let's just do know what I mean? We're let's just do this dance because that's what it is.

this dance because that's what it is. this dance because that's what it is. You know, You know, You know, >> but it's there's never going to be you >> but it's there's never going to be you >> but it's there's never going to be you could do a movie about this for real. could do a movie about this for real. could do a movie about this for real. >> You really could. You really could. >> You really could. You really could. >> You really could. You really could. >> All right. Um we don't have much time. >> All right. Um we don't have much time. >> All right. Um we don't have much time. That's what that's why I'm going like That's what that's why I'm going like That's what that's why I'm going like that. And I'm I'm upset because I have that. And I'm I'm upset because I have that. And I'm I'm upset because I have so much to ask you. Um, so I'm going to so much to ask you. Um, so I'm going to so much to ask you. Um, so I'm going to skip asking you about working with skip asking you about working with skip asking you about working with Sandra Bulock and Demolition Man, um, Sandra Bulock and Demolition Man, um, Sandra Bulock and Demolition Man, um, and Sharon Stone and The Specialist. So, and Sharon Stone and The Specialist. So, and Sharon Stone and The Specialist. So, we're going to move on. we're going to move on. we're going to move on. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, >> bye ladies. >> bye ladies. >> bye ladies. >> Yeah. Bye, ladies. Indeed. Sorry. >> Yeah. Bye, ladies. Indeed. Sorry. >> Yeah. Bye, ladies. Indeed. Sorry. >> Sorry. >> Sorry. >> Sorry. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What I do want to ask you is about your >> What I do want to ask you is about your >> What I do want to ask you is about your body. body. body. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, >> body. >> body. >> body. >> Body. Yes. Your physique. >> Body. Yes. Your physique. >> Body. Yes. Your physique. >> Well, now you're getting personal >> Well, now you're getting personal >> Well, now you're getting personal >> because at several points in your >> because at several points in your >> because at several points in your career, you were exceptionally muscular. career, you were exceptionally muscular. career, you were exceptionally muscular. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Um, which wasn't your build before >> Um, which wasn't your build before >> Um, which wasn't your build before Rocky. And I was really curious how your Rocky. And I was really curious how your Rocky. And I was really curious how your relationship with your body has changed relationship with your body has changed relationship with your body has changed over time. How, you know, you saw over time. How, you know, you saw over time. How, you know, you saw yourself and then how when you turned yourself and then how when you turned yourself and then how when you turned into this big action star with the big into this big action star with the big into this big action star with the big muscles and everyone was sort of muscles and everyone was sort of muscles and everyone was sort of venerating that, how did you see venerating that, how did you see venerating that, how did you see yourself? How did your relationship with yourself? How did your relationship with yourself? How did your relationship with that change over time?

that change over time? that change over time? >> It became very intimate, you might say. >> It became very intimate, you might say. >> It became very intimate, you might say. Uh, it was my armor. I I looked at like Uh, it was my armor. I I looked at like Uh, it was my armor. I I looked at like Rocky Rocky, very smooth, very normal Rocky Rocky, very smooth, very normal Rocky Rocky, very smooth, very normal looking guy. And then I said, "If we looking guy. And then I said, "If we looking guy. And then I said, "If we move on, you have to I think the move on, you have to I think the move on, you have to I think the character would start to become a bit character would start to become a bit character would start to become a bit more vain." And and then if Rambo, more vain." And and then if Rambo, more vain." And and then if Rambo, you're playing a warrior, you'd be a you're playing a warrior, you'd be a you're playing a warrior, you'd be a little bit more anim animalistic. You little bit more anim animalistic. You little bit more anim animalistic. You wouldn't be so smooth. So I started to wouldn't be so smooth. So I started to wouldn't be so smooth. So I started to think, design your body like a a jaguar, think, design your body like a a jaguar, think, design your body like a a jaguar, a cat, not big like Arnold, but more uh a cat, not big like Arnold, but more uh a cat, not big like Arnold, but more uh fural. M fural. M fural. M >> and and aggressive and and very limber >> and and aggressive and and very limber >> and and aggressive and and very limber and move in and athletic and then it and move in and athletic and then it and move in and athletic and then it became an obsession became an obsession became an obsession >> really bad. It became to the point where >> really bad. It became to the point where >> really bad. It became to the point where uh I became bimic. uh I became bimic. uh I became bimic. Yeah. You didn't know that. Okay. You Yeah. You didn't know that. Okay. You Yeah. You didn't know that. Okay. You heard it here first. heard it here first. heard it here first. >> Yeah. Because I was like, you know, you >> Yeah. Because I was like, you know, you >> Yeah. Because I was like, you know, you would eat I was I got down to 2.6 potty would eat I was I got down to 2.6 potty would eat I was I got down to 2.6 potty fat when I was doing Rocky 3 in the fat when I was doing Rocky 3 in the fat when I was doing Rocky 3 in the opening scene. Literally like go for it, opening scene. Literally like go for it, opening scene. Literally like go for it, you know, like hollow. And I couldn't you know, like hollow. And I couldn't you know, like hollow. And I couldn't hold anything down or if I did, I didn't hold anything down or if I did, I didn't hold anything down or if I did, I didn't want to keep it down cuz I wanted to I I want to keep it down cuz I wanted to I I want to keep it down cuz I wanted to I I became so obsessed at staying at that became so obsessed at staying at that became so obsessed at staying at that point of fitness. And then finally I, point of fitness. And then finally I, point of fitness. And then finally I, you know, I just broke the the cycle.

you know, I just broke the the cycle. you know, I just broke the the cycle. But it it it got to me literally an But it it it got to me literally an But it it it got to me literally an obsessive uh body worship kind of a obsessive uh body worship kind of a obsessive uh body worship kind of a thing. And then, you know, you you thing. And then, you know, you you thing. And then, you know, you you nobody does it without, you know, nobody does it without, you know, nobody does it without, you know, additives and drugs, period. I don't additives and drugs, period. I don't additives and drugs, period. I don't care who they say. It's it has care who they say. It's it has care who they say. It's it has to. But then again, it isn't as though to. But then again, it isn't as though to. But then again, it isn't as though you're a junkie. Uh but it's uh if you're a junkie. Uh but it's uh if you're a junkie. Uh but it's uh if you're going to put on if you're going you're going to put on if you're going you're going to put on if you're going to work and try to stay in shape for 6 to work and try to stay in shape for 6 to work and try to stay in shape for 6 months straight and you're you're eating months straight and you're you're eating months straight and you're you're eating yogurt and pudding and it's not yogurt and pudding and it's not yogurt and pudding and it's not happening. You know, you're just not happening. You know, you're just not happening. You know, you're just not like these. like these. like these. >> So, you're taking steroids, you're >> So, you're taking steroids, you're >> So, you're taking steroids, you're saying, saying, saying, >> "Oh my god, you have to." >> "Oh my god, you have to." >> "Oh my god, you have to." >> But you you do it in a sensitive way. >> But you you do it in a sensitive way. >> But you you do it in a sensitive way. Six weeks on, six weeks off. And people Six weeks on, six weeks off. And people Six weeks on, six weeks off. And people go, "Oh, you don't get that way go, "Oh, you don't get that way go, "Oh, you don't get that way naturally." No, you don't. naturally." No, you don't. naturally." No, you don't. >> You don't unless you're just a freak of >> You don't unless you're just a freak of >> You don't unless you're just a freak of nature. So everyone who says it, I can nature. So everyone who says it, I can nature. So everyone who says it, I can see a m a mile away. You know what is see a m a mile away. You know what is see a m a mile away. You know what is obvious. But [snorts] that also took a obvious. But [snorts] that also took a obvious. But [snorts] that also took a terrible toll. Terrible toll. And terrible toll. Terrible toll. And terrible toll. Terrible toll. And >> emotionally too because it affects no >> emotionally too because it affects no >> emotionally too because it affects no your moods and everything. your moods and everything. your moods and everything. >> It wasn't until I did Copland where I >> It wasn't until I did Copland where I >> It wasn't until I did Copland where I had to like devest myself of that and had to like devest myself of that and had to like devest myself of that and play the weakest guy in the room and play the weakest guy in the room and play the weakest guy in the room and partially deaf, overweight, everything partially deaf, overweight, everything partially deaf, overweight, everything that I I really felt somewhat liberated.

that I I really felt somewhat liberated. that I I really felt somewhat liberated. Then things went sideways and I I don't Then things went sideways and I I don't Then things went sideways and I I don't know. I just fell out of grace with know. I just fell out of grace with know. I just fell out of grace with Hollywood. But yeah, the the body has Hollywood. But yeah, the the body has Hollywood. But yeah, the the body has played a but [snorts] I I've abused it. played a but [snorts] I I've abused it. played a but [snorts] I I've abused it. I've had nine back operation, two I've had nine back operation, two I've had nine back operation, two shoulder operation, three neck fusions, shoulder operation, three neck fusions, shoulder operation, three neck fusions, you know, you everything everything is you know, you everything everything is you know, you everything everything is held together with bailing wire, but I held together with bailing wire, but I held together with bailing wire, but I still have that still have that still have that want to u stay in good shape. want to u stay in good shape. want to u stay in good shape. >> Do you still see it as your armor? >> Do you still see it as your armor? >> Do you still see it as your armor? No, that [laughter] No, no, no. No, that [laughter] No, no, no. No, that [laughter] No, no, no. >> Cuz you're still fit. You're 80. >> Cuz you're still fit. You're 80. >> Cuz you're still fit. You're 80. >> I'm sort of fit, but you know, I've got >> I'm sort of fit, but you know, I've got >> I'm sort of fit, but you know, I've got all kinds of, you know, take a lot of all kinds of, you know, take a lot of all kinds of, you know, take a lot of pills to keep going, you know, kind of pills to keep going, you know, kind of pills to keep going, you know, kind of thing. Uh, it it's come a terrible thing. Uh, it it's come a terrible thing. Uh, it it's come a terrible price. If I could do it over again, I price. If I could do it over again, I price. If I could do it over again, I would say let someone else carry the would say let someone else carry the would say let someone else carry the banner. Don't do your own stunts. You banner. Don't do your own stunts. You banner. Don't do your own stunts. You know, you know, I don't know what it was know, you know, I don't know what it was know, you know, I don't know what it was about just hurting myself all the time. about just hurting myself all the time. about just hurting myself all the time. I mean, all the time. I mean, all the time. I mean, all the time. >> Is it masochistic? Yeah, very >> Is it masochistic? Yeah, very >> Is it masochistic? Yeah, very masochistic. It It's not like I'm I'm masochistic. It It's not like I'm I'm masochistic. It It's not like I'm I'm self flagagillating, but if someone's self flagagillating, but if someone's self flagagillating, but if someone's gonna dive onto the canvas and Rocky gonna dive onto the canvas and Rocky gonna dive onto the canvas and Rocky like take a hit full force and go like take a hit full force and go like take a hit full force and go backwards and land thud cuz there's no backwards and land thud cuz there's no backwards and land thud cuz there's no padding. You're like landing on a board padding. You're like landing on a board padding. You're like landing on a board with a little thin canvas. It just jars with a little thin canvas. It just jars with a little thin canvas. It just jars you and jars you. But you go, I can do you and jars you. But you go, I can do you and jars you. But you go, I can do better. I can do it better. And this is better. I can do it better. And this is better. I can do it better. And this is all going back to dad and you know back all going back to dad and you know back all going back to dad and you know back there in the polo field like no you're there in the polo field like no you're there in the polo field like no you're [snorts] not going to break me but it [snorts] not going to break me but it [snorts] not going to break me but it does break you do get broken a little

does break you do get broken a little does break you do get broken a little bit physically not mentally. bit physically not mentally. bit physically not mentally. >> Um we're going to talk again but I want >> Um we're going to talk again but I want >> Um we're going to talk again but I want to end with something that you said to end with something that you said to end with something that you said about regret. about regret. about regret. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And that you don't get to be your age at >> And that you don't get to be your age at >> And that you don't get to be your age at your career without a mountain of them. your career without a mountain of them. your career without a mountain of them. And we've kind of touched on that a And we've kind of touched on that a And we've kind of touched on that a little. Yeah. little. Yeah. little. Yeah. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, >> it's horrible. It's horrible. It really >> it's horrible. It's horrible. It really >> it's horrible. It's horrible. It really is because, you know, you it's the fog is because, you know, you it's the fog is because, you know, you it's the fog of war, the war of trying to succeed and of war, the war of trying to succeed and of war, the war of trying to succeed and you can blame it on that or just self you can blame it on that or just self you can blame it on that or just self petty self-absorption petty self-absorption petty self-absorption and I go, "Wow." And it is painful. But and I go, "Wow." And it is painful. But and I go, "Wow." And it is painful. But yesterday is dead. The future is yesterday is dead. The future is yesterday is dead. The future is unknown. All we got is today. You keep unknown. All we got is today. You keep unknown. All we got is today. You keep going back to that philosophy and you going back to that philosophy and you going back to that philosophy and you go, you know, forgive yourself. go, you know, forgive yourself. go, you know, forgive yourself. No, when you forgive yourself for being No, when you forgive yourself for being No, when you forgive yourself for being a bastard for No, you just regret, you a bastard for No, you just regret, you a bastard for No, you just regret, you know, I wish I hadn't done that. Wish I know, I wish I hadn't done that. Wish I know, I wish I hadn't done that. Wish I hadn't done that. I'm so I'm not going hadn't done that. I'm so I'm not going hadn't done that. I'm so I'm not going to do that anymore. But God, cuz what to do that anymore. But God, cuz what to do that anymore. But God, cuz what you did, you hurt yourself. You really you did, you hurt yourself. You really you did, you hurt yourself. You really did. You didn't Yeah. You You denied did. You didn't Yeah. You You denied did. You didn't Yeah. You You denied people your love and this and that, people your love and this and that, people your love and this and that, [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] but you also did worse to yourself.

but you also did worse to yourself. but you also did worse to yourself. >> Have you forgiven your parents? I've accepted I've accepted that they are [snorts] who they are, you that they are [snorts] who they are, you that they are [snorts] who they are, you know, to forgive. know, to forgive. know, to forgive. I guess you could say, yeah, I I do. I I guess you could say, yeah, I I do. I I guess you could say, yeah, I I do. I mean, it's it's definitely a a delicate mean, it's it's definitely a a delicate mean, it's it's definitely a a delicate peace treaty, peace treaty, peace treaty, but yeah, I I have to, you know, what do but yeah, I I have to, you know, what do but yeah, I I have to, you know, what do we walk around like yelling at ghosts, we walk around like yelling at ghosts, we walk around like yelling at ghosts, [snorts] come back here, you know, we [snorts] come back here, you know, we [snorts] come back here, you know, we got we're not finished, you know, can't got we're not finished, you know, can't got we're not finished, you know, can't that's that's about the regrets, you that's that's about the regrets, you that's that's about the regrets, you know. So, all I can do is cherish every know. So, all I can do is cherish every know. So, all I can do is cherish every second because let's face it, you know, second because let's face it, you know, second because let's face it, you know, I can see the light at the end of the I can see the light at the end of the I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. There it is. And I'm incredibly tunnel. There it is. And I'm incredibly tunnel. There it is. And I'm incredibly fortunate to be doing Tulsa King. And I fortunate to be doing Tulsa King. And I fortunate to be doing Tulsa King. And I mean, it's a gift. And David Galassa, mean, it's a gift. And David Galassa, mean, it's a gift. And David Galassa, you know, like giving me this new breath you know, like giving me this new breath you know, like giving me this new breath of life and a whole new character. of life and a whole new character. of life and a whole new character. Imagine playing like, [laughter] oh Imagine playing like, [laughter] oh Imagine playing like, [laughter] oh yeah, we're doing Rambo at 80. Oh my yeah, we're doing Rambo at 80. Oh my yeah, we're doing Rambo at 80. Oh my god, who's he fighting? He's fighting god, who's he fighting? He's fighting god, who's he fighting? He's fighting Mr. Arthritis. What are you? You're kind Mr. Arthritis. What are you? You're kind Mr. Arthritis. What are you? You're kind of out of You're out of opponents.

of out of You're out of opponents. of out of You're out of opponents. You're fighting Oh yeah, brain disease. You're fighting Oh yeah, brain disease. You're fighting Oh yeah, brain disease. Okay. Okay. Okay. >> [laughter and gasps] >> [laughter and gasps] >> [laughter and gasps] >> We'll end here for now. Sylvester >> We'll end here for now. Sylvester >> We'll end here for now. Sylvester Stallone, thank you so much. Stallone, thank you so much. Stallone, thank you so much. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Ciao. >> Ciao. >> Ciao. >> On the interview, we talked to our guest >> On the interview, we talked to our guest >> On the interview, we talked to our guest twice. [music] So, the next day, I spoke twice. [music] So, the next day, I spoke twice. [music] So, the next day, I spoke with Sylvester Stallone again, and he with Sylvester Stallone again, and he with Sylvester Stallone again, and he told me about his evolution from being told me about his evolution from being told me about his evolution from being [music] an avatar for war in the Rambo [music] an avatar for war in the Rambo [music] an avatar for war in the Rambo movies into becoming personally movies into becoming personally movies into becoming personally anti-war. anti-war. anti-war. Hi. Hi. Hi. >> Hi. [laughter] >> Hi. [laughter] >> Hi. [laughter] back for more. What is wrong with you? back for more. What is wrong with you? back for more. What is wrong with you? >> Uh, >> Uh, >> Uh, >> I give it my word though. You you have >> I give it my word though. You you have >> I give it my word though. You you have the most in-depth interview I'm ever the most in-depth interview I'm ever the most in-depth interview I'm ever doing. So, take that to the bank. doing. So, take that to the bank. doing. So, take that to the bank. >> I Well, actually, I wanted to thank you >> I Well, actually, I wanted to thank you >> I Well, actually, I wanted to thank you so much for your cander yesterday. You so much for your cander yesterday. You so much for your cander yesterday. You have always been this person who has have always been this person who has have always been this person who has exuded invincibility. Uh, that's been exuded invincibility. Uh, that's been exuded invincibility. Uh, that's been your persona in your life and that's your persona in your life and that's your persona in your life and that's been your persona uh in many of your been your persona uh in many of your been your persona uh in many of your roles. And so roles. And so roles. And so it's kind of astonishing to see you be it's kind of astonishing to see you be it's kind of astonishing to see you be so vulnerable. [snorts] >> Even though I put on this, you know, >> Even though I put on this, you know, facade of being armor, I of having facade of being armor, I of having facade of being armor, I of having armor, like when you see Rocky and I'm armor, like when you see Rocky and I'm armor, like when you see Rocky and I'm writing for Adrian, I really have a lot writing for Adrian, I really have a lot writing for Adrian, I really have a lot of empathy for of empathy for of empathy for people [snorts] that just didn't get a people [snorts] that just didn't get a people [snorts] that just didn't get a break in life. And I've always thought, break in life. And I've always thought, break in life. And I've always thought, boy, there's so many stories in these

boy, there's so many stories in these boy, there's so many stories in these people, but they're never gonna get out. people, but they're never gonna get out. people, but they're never gonna get out. >> So, that's why I think Rocky was such a >> So, that's why I think Rocky was such a >> So, that's why I think Rocky was such a um uh such a success, cuz everyone has um uh such a success, cuz everyone has um uh such a success, cuz everyone has that like character that very few people that like character that very few people that like character that very few people get recognition for. You know, they get recognition for. You know, they get recognition for. You know, they just, you know, they live in quiet just, you know, they live in quiet just, you know, they live in quiet suffering. They're never going to get suffering. They're never going to get suffering. They're never going to get any recognition. They're never, [snorts] any recognition. They're never, [snorts] any recognition. They're never, [snorts] you know, like I'm just here filling you know, like I'm just here filling you know, like I'm just here filling space. I'm just another seat on the bus. space. I'm just another seat on the bus. space. I'm just another seat on the bus. >> H, >> H, >> H, you know, you've been in so many iconic you know, you've been in so many iconic you know, you've been in so many iconic films, franchises, Rocky, Rambo, The films, franchises, Rocky, Rambo, The films, franchises, Rocky, Rambo, The Expendables, now Taylor Sheridan's Tulsa Expendables, now Taylor Sheridan's Tulsa Expendables, now Taylor Sheridan's Tulsa King. You were nominated for another King. You were nominated for another King. You were nominated for another Oscar for Creed in 2016. What's your Oscar for Creed in 2016. What's your Oscar for Creed in 2016. What's your most underappreciated performance, do most underappreciated performance, do most underappreciated performance, do you think, that you're most proud of? you think, that you're most proud of? you think, that you're most proud of? >> Copland, [snorts] >> Copland, [snorts] >> Copland, [snorts] for sure, because I had been um for sure, because I had been um for sure, because I had been um basically reduced to a lump of meat. basically reduced to a lump of meat. basically reduced to a lump of meat. Like, you're not that smart. you're an Like, you're not that smart. you're an Like, you're not that smart. you're an action guy. And I have always looked at action guy. And I have always looked at action guy. And I have always looked at action when it's done well as modern action when it's done well as modern action when it's done well as modern mythology. We don't have scribes running mythology. We don't have scribes running mythology. We don't have scribes running around and carving on stone tablets around and carving on stone tablets around and carving on stone tablets about the Hercules and so on and so about the Hercules and so on and so about the Hercules and so on and so forth. So, I decided to delve in that by forth. So, I decided to delve in that by forth. So, I decided to delve in that by accident because first blood I never accident because first blood I never accident because first blood I never imagined would transition me into uh imagined would transition me into uh imagined would transition me into uh more physical life because I'm not I more physical life because I'm not I more physical life because I'm not I wasn't born this physical specimen at wasn't born this physical specimen at wasn't born this physical specimen at all. [snorts] And it it just it it just all. [snorts] And it it just it it just all. [snorts] And it it just it it just became so frustrating that things were became so frustrating that things were became so frustrating that things were slowing down. I was 50 years old. It was slowing down. I was 50 years old. It was slowing down. I was 50 years old. It was 1996.

1996. 1996. I thought I would like to go into the I thought I would like to go into the I thought I would like to go into the arena of, you know, the guys, the the arena of, you know, the guys, the the arena of, you know, the guys, the the top athletes, the top actors and see how top athletes, the top actors and see how top athletes, the top actors and see how we uh you know, bounce off of one we uh you know, bounce off of one we uh you know, bounce off of one another and and it it became that kind another and and it it became that kind another and and it it became that kind of challenge. There was definitely a of challenge. There was definitely a of challenge. There was definitely a dichotomy between the serious actor and dichotomy between the serious actor and dichotomy between the serious actor and that guy, meaning me me. And I thought I that guy, meaning me me. And I thought I that guy, meaning me me. And I thought I I really welcomed it. I really did. I I really welcomed it. I really did. I I really welcomed it. I really did. I did the whole thing for free because the did the whole thing for free because the did the whole thing for free because the experiment was well worth it. experiment was well worth it. experiment was well worth it. >> You know, in our first conversation, you >> You know, in our first conversation, you >> You know, in our first conversation, you also talked about how no one would also talked about how no one would also talked about how no one would return your calls in Hollywood for a return your calls in Hollywood for a return your calls in Hollywood for a period of years in the late 1990s when period of years in the late 1990s when period of years in the late 1990s when things were pretty rough for you there. things were pretty rough for you there. things were pretty rough for you there. Um, and this was a period when you had Um, and this was a period when you had Um, and this was a period when you had movies that didn't do well. Judge Dread, movies that didn't do well. Judge Dread, movies that didn't do well. Judge Dread, Daylight, Get Carter, Driven, Detox, Daylight, Get Carter, Driven, Detox, Daylight, Get Carter, Driven, Detox, Avenging Angelo. Um, and I came across Avenging Angelo. Um, and I came across Avenging Angelo. Um, and I came across an interview you gave to the New York an interview you gave to the New York an interview you gave to the New York Times in 1992 just as you were filming Times in 1992 just as you were filming Times in 1992 just as you were filming Cliffhanger. Cliffhanger. Cliffhanger. >> The article quotes one prominent >> The article quotes one prominent >> The article quotes one prominent Hollywood agent, and I'm going to quote Hollywood agent, and I'm going to quote Hollywood agent, and I'm going to quote here, who said, "I think he's a here, who said, "I think he's a here, who said, "I think he's a diminishing asset. With every film he diminishing asset. With every film he diminishing asset. With every film he does, he goes down a little further.

does, he goes down a little further. does, he goes down a little further. He's the new Bert Reynolds." He's the new Bert Reynolds." He's the new Bert Reynolds." And Cliffhanger then went on to do And Cliffhanger then went on to do And Cliffhanger then went on to do really well. really well. really well. >> Yeah. And it seems like there were these >> Yeah. And it seems like there were these >> Yeah. And it seems like there were these number of moments in your life when number of moments in your life when number of moments in your life when Hollywood was trying to write you off Hollywood was trying to write you off Hollywood was trying to write you off and you kept having these comebacks. and you kept having these comebacks. and you kept having these comebacks. >> I mean, how did you deal with this >> I mean, how did you deal with this >> I mean, how did you deal with this [snorts] thing of having to keep proving [snorts] thing of having to keep proving [snorts] thing of having to keep proving yourself to this industry? yourself to this industry? yourself to this industry? >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, actually, I took it as somewhat actually, I took it as somewhat actually, I took it as somewhat invigorating because now I had a invigorating because now I had a invigorating because now I had a purpose. It's one thing to sit there and purpose. It's one thing to sit there and purpose. It's one thing to sit there and be, I guess, uh, slowly, you know, your be, I guess, uh, slowly, you know, your be, I guess, uh, slowly, you know, your your [snorts] image is diminishing right your [snorts] image is diminishing right your [snorts] image is diminishing right before you. You're evaporating. But for before you. You're evaporating. But for before you. You're evaporating. But for some reason, I I just said, "This is a some reason, I I just said, "This is a some reason, I I just said, "This is a call to arms. And what am I going to go call to arms. And what am I going to go call to arms. And what am I going to go back to? I'm going to write another back to? I'm going to write another back to? I'm going to write another Rocky at 60 years old." And it was just Rocky at 60 years old." And it was just Rocky at 60 years old." And it was just the most ridiculous like 60-year-old the most ridiculous like 60-year-old the most ridiculous like 60-year-old boxer like a 120 year old can can boxer like a 120 year old can can boxer like a 120 year old can can dancer. it just doesn't work, you know, dancer. it just doesn't work, you know, dancer. it just doesn't work, you know, it doesn't work. But I was able to get it doesn't work. But I was able to get it doesn't work. But I was able to get out the the portion of um what people go out the the portion of um what people go out the the portion of um what people go through as they're going into their through as they're going into their through as they're going into their later years, which is grief, the sense later years, which is grief, the sense later years, which is grief, the sense of loss. It had nothing to do with of loss. It had nothing to do with of loss. It had nothing to do with boxing anymore. And I I just felt like, boxing anymore. And I I just felt like, boxing anymore. And I I just felt like, God, this is the perfect opportunity God, this is the perfect opportunity God, this is the perfect opportunity now. And and it, of course, it was now. And and it, of course, it was now. And and it, of course, it was rejected everywhere. I mean, I I had rejected everywhere. I mean, I I had rejected everywhere. I mean, I I had studio heads actually say, "Rocky's done studio heads actually say, "Rocky's done studio heads actually say, "Rocky's done and so are you, Sly. You're done. Just

and so are you, Sly. You're done. Just and so are you, Sly. You're done. Just go off fishing." [laughter] go off fishing." [laughter] go off fishing." [laughter] Okay, [clears throat] I get [snorts] it. Okay, [clears throat] I get [snorts] it. Okay, [clears throat] I get [snorts] it. And I go through rewrites after rewrites And I go through rewrites after rewrites And I go through rewrites after rewrites and but I've always had this um [snorts] and but I've always had this um [snorts] and but I've always had this um [snorts] sense that you have to go down swinging. sense that you have to go down swinging. sense that you have to go down swinging. >> How do you explain this period of not so >> How do you explain this period of not so >> How do you explain this period of not so great films? I mean, did you know the great films? I mean, did you know the great films? I mean, did you know the films were bad at the time? Was it a films were bad at the time? Was it a films were bad at the time? Was it a quality control issue? Yeah, it it quality control issue? Yeah, it it quality control issue? Yeah, it it really was. I mean, I didn't apply really was. I mean, I didn't apply really was. I mean, I didn't apply myself to the actual quality and who myself to the actual quality and who myself to the actual quality and who were the components. So, um even though were the components. So, um even though were the components. So, um even though each project had [clears throat] a great each project had [clears throat] a great each project had [clears throat] a great ability to be successful, I don't think ability to be successful, I don't think ability to be successful, I don't think I really focused on the fine strokes, I really focused on the fine strokes, I really focused on the fine strokes, which is what artists made about. In which is what artists made about. In which is what artists made about. In other words, the right director, the other words, the right director, the other words, the right director, the right this, the right co-star, the right right this, the right co-star, the right right this, the right co-star, the right advertising, the right theme song. These advertising, the right theme song. These advertising, the right theme song. These are things that I used to really apply are things that I used to really apply are things that I used to really apply myself to and I I I suppose I just got myself to and I I I suppose I just got myself to and I I I suppose I just got lazy [snorts] and it started this lazy [snorts] and it started this lazy [snorts] and it started this whirlpool. whirlpool. whirlpool. [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] >> It makes me wonder I mean what it does >> It makes me wonder I mean what it does >> It makes me wonder I mean what it does to the soul of an artistic person to to the soul of an artistic person to to the soul of an artistic person to make movies that aren't good. make movies that aren't good. make movies that aren't good. >> Oh boy. It it's um >> Oh boy. It it's um >> Oh boy. It it's um it's it's a death in the family because it's it's a death in the family because it's it's a death in the family because it's it's not as though you um you you it's it's not as though you um you you it's it's not as though you um you you didn't sell a vacuum cleaner today. It's didn't sell a vacuum cleaner today. It's didn't sell a vacuum cleaner today. It's all over the world. And there is a a all over the world. And there is a a all over the world. And there is a a part of human nature that revels in part of human nature that revels in part of human nature that revels in that. You know what I mean? And I don't that. You know what I mean? And I don't that. You know what I mean? And I don't and I again I don't take it personally.

and I again I don't take it personally. and I again I don't take it personally. I think that quite often human nature I think that quite often human nature I think that quite often human nature says, "Okay, he's had enough time. Let's says, "Okay, he's had enough time. Let's says, "Okay, he's had enough time. Let's bring on the new generation. Okay, move bring on the new generation. Okay, move bring on the new generation. Okay, move over SL. Stop hogging the screen. So, I over SL. Stop hogging the screen. So, I over SL. Stop hogging the screen. So, I get it. So, it's when you reach a get it. So, it's when you reach a get it. So, it's when you reach a certain age in this business, it becomes certain age in this business, it becomes certain age in this business, it becomes a very very very competitive, delicate, a very very very competitive, delicate, a very very very competitive, delicate, and uh tenuous and uh tenuous and uh tenuous u career. It doesn't take much to boom. u career. It doesn't take much to boom. u career. It doesn't take much to boom. So, that's why I think uh it's it's a So, that's why I think uh it's it's a So, that's why I think uh it's it's a very neurotic business at times because very neurotic business at times because very neurotic business at times because the product is you. It isn't like, "Oh, the product is you. It isn't like, "Oh, the product is you. It isn't like, "Oh, you rejected my leather jacket." No, we you rejected my leather jacket." No, we you rejected my leather jacket." No, we don't like you. But I realize I go, you don't like you. But I realize I go, you don't like you. But I realize I go, you know, here you go again. You have to do know, here you go again. You have to do know, here you go again. You have to do it for yourself. You have to like go out it for yourself. You have to like go out it for yourself. You have to like go out there and find the firewood and start there and find the firewood and start there and find the firewood and start the fire. No one is going to knock on the fire. No one is going to knock on the fire. No one is going to knock on the door and go, "Here, here's an Oscar the door and go, "Here, here's an Oscar the door and go, "Here, here's an Oscar winning script. Love you." No. And so it winning script. Love you." No. And so it winning script. Love you." No. And so it it really did it it it helped me because it really did it it it helped me because it really did it it it helped me because I you know when you finally hit bottom I you know when you finally hit bottom I you know when you finally hit bottom you have two choices you know you can't you have two choices you know you can't you have two choices you know you can't go any lower and you just eventually go any lower and you just eventually go any lower and you just eventually stop breathing and I've always said the stop breathing and I've always said the stop breathing and I've always said the artist dies twice you know the second artist dies twice you know the second artist dies twice you know the second death is the easiest one compared to the death is the easiest one compared to the death is the easiest one compared to the career death and which is you know career death and which is you know career death and which is you know you're being dismissed but I said and I you're being dismissed but I said and I you're being dismissed but I said and I it just woke me up and I was so it just woke me up and I was so it just woke me up and I was so invigorated starting to write. So when I invigorated starting to write. So when I invigorated starting to write. So when I the hardest and the proudest moment by the hardest and the proudest moment by the hardest and the proudest moment by far in my life is Rocky Balboa because

far in my life is Rocky Balboa because far in my life is Rocky Balboa because nobody wanted it. I was done. I when I nobody wanted it. I was done. I when I nobody wanted it. I was done. I when I say done I mean agent fire me, managers say done I mean agent fire me, managers say done I mean agent fire me, managers fire. I was done. fire. I was done. fire. I was done. >> I go okay this is this sounds very >> I go okay this is this sounds very >> I go okay this is this sounds very familiar. Let's start over again and see familiar. Let's start over again and see familiar. Let's start over again and see if you can do it at 60. So it was a if you can do it at 60. So it was a if you can do it at 60. So it was a fantastic um you [snorts] know voyage fantastic um you [snorts] know voyage fantastic um you [snorts] know voyage into the unknown. It it literally I said into the unknown. It it literally I said into the unknown. It it literally I said I this sounds very familiar when you I this sounds very familiar when you I this sounds very familiar when you were 29 years old. Same thing like this were 29 years old. Same thing like this were 29 years old. Same thing like this is it is it is it >> you know listening to you talk about >> you know listening to you talk about >> you know listening to you talk about this. Can you articulate your this. Can you articulate your this. Can you articulate your relationship then to the character Rocky relationship then to the character Rocky relationship then to the character Rocky Balboa because it that character has Balboa because it that character has Balboa because it that character has >> saved your career, launched your career. >> saved your career, launched your career. >> saved your career, launched your career. Um, Um, Um, >> you are defined by it. In many ways, >> you are defined by it. In many ways, >> you are defined by it. In many ways, America is defined by it. America is defined by it. America is defined by it. >> Rocky is kind of like my imaginary >> Rocky is kind of like my imaginary >> Rocky is kind of like my imaginary male role model. It It's my father. It's male role model. It It's my father. It's male role model. It It's my father. It's what I wish, you know, I could be. So I what I wish, you know, I could be. So I what I wish, you know, I could be. So I when I created him, I put every when I created him, I put every when I created him, I put every component in there. his self- aacement, component in there. his self- aacement, component in there. his self- aacement, his kind of humbleness, the ability to his kind of humbleness, the ability to his kind of humbleness, the ability to also take loss, how he's very also take loss, how he's very also take loss, how he's very philosophical about life is philosophical about life is philosophical about life is is [snorts] very difficult. And so I is [snorts] very difficult. And so I is [snorts] very difficult. And so I adapted that and it always came to the adapted that and it always came to the adapted that and it always came to the rescue [snorts] because it just pours rescue [snorts] because it just pours rescue [snorts] because it just pours out of me. Really, it does. I mean, out of me. Really, it does. I mean, out of me. Really, it does. I mean, writing other things, especially if

writing other things, especially if writing other things, especially if you're writing something like Rambo, you're writing something like Rambo, you're writing something like Rambo, which is very difficult because he's which is very difficult because he's which is very difficult because he's monosalabic. He he his is lack of monosalabic. He he his is lack of monosalabic. He he his is lack of expression. Rocky's is everything he's expression. Rocky's is everything he's expression. Rocky's is everything he's thinking thinking thinking comes out. You know, it's not about how comes out. You know, it's not about how comes out. You know, it's not about how hard you hit, it's about how hard you hard you hit, it's about how hard you hard you hit, it's about how hard you can get hit. Like all these things that can get hit. Like all these things that can get hit. Like all these things that most people would never talk about. So I most people would never talk about. So I most people would never talk about. So I found this to be like a therapeutic found this to be like a therapeutic found this to be like a therapeutic beyond anything [snorts] I've ever like beyond anything [snorts] I've ever like beyond anything [snorts] I've ever like you you asked you know you go to therapy you you asked you know you go to therapy you you asked you know you go to therapy that [clears throat] that was my sign in that [clears throat] that was my sign in that [clears throat] that was my sign in Freud right there. I have another uh Freud right there. I have another uh Freud right there. I have another uh question about Rambo. You know, as as we question about Rambo. You know, as as we question about Rambo. You know, as as we had discussed, the first movie was quite had discussed, the first movie was quite had discussed, the first movie was quite complicated. You know, this vet that was complicated. You know, this vet that was complicated. You know, this vet that was discarded by his country who had PTSD. discarded by his country who had PTSD. discarded by his country who had PTSD. Um and you told this incredible story Um and you told this incredible story Um and you told this incredible story about how the last scene comes about um about how the last scene comes about um about how the last scene comes about um with the movie ending with him being with the movie ending with him being with the movie ending with him being arrested. arrested. arrested. >> But then the character over time turns >> But then the character over time turns >> But then the character over time turns into this avatar, right? this classic into this avatar, right? this classic into this avatar, right? this classic action movie hero action movie hero action movie hero >> perhaps with a little less depth than >> perhaps with a little less depth than >> perhaps with a little less depth than the original character had.

the original character had. the original character had. >> You're absolutely right. And that's my >> You're absolutely right. And that's my >> You're absolutely right. And that's my fault. That's my fault. Uh this is where fault. That's my fault. Uh this is where fault. That's my fault. Uh this is where this kind of vain glorious pomposity this kind of vain glorious pomposity this kind of vain glorious pomposity that now if I if you're like that way do that now if I if you're like that way do that now if I if you're like that way do you see this? And I didn't really focus you see this? And I didn't really focus you see this? And I didn't really focus on the depth of what he was still going on the depth of what he was still going on the depth of what he was still going through while trying to save PS. He's through while trying to save PS. He's through while trying to save PS. He's trying to save his own soul. We never trying to save his own soul. We never trying to save his own soul. We never got into that. It's just like bravado, got into that. It's just like bravado, got into that. It's just like bravado, bravado, bravado, bulletproof. And bravado, bravado, bulletproof. And bravado, bravado, bulletproof. And that's all me. That's all me. I mean, I that's all me. That's all me. I mean, I that's all me. That's all me. I mean, I that that was a problem that this is that that was a problem that this is that that was a problem that this is when you you get really hung up on when you you get really hung up on when you you get really hung up on kind of like clandestine narcissism. It kind of like clandestine narcissism. It kind of like clandestine narcissism. It it works its way in there and then you it works its way in there and then you it works its way in there and then you realize, hell, this is a lot easier than realize, hell, this is a lot easier than realize, hell, this is a lot easier than showing your soul, flexing your muscles. showing your soul, flexing your muscles. showing your soul, flexing your muscles. See what I mean? See what I mean? See what I mean? >> And [snorts] it was terrible. It kind >> And [snorts] it was terrible. It kind >> And [snorts] it was terrible. It kind of, you know, like a cartoon. of, you know, like a cartoon. of, you know, like a cartoon. >> It came to define also this projection >> It came to define also this projection >> It came to define also this projection of American power, you know, of American power, you know, of American power, you know, >> and I'm going to quote you to you in an >> and I'm going to quote you to you in an >> and I'm going to quote you to you in an interview in 1985 when you were talking interview in 1985 when you were talking interview in 1985 when you were talking about your view of war, your politics.

about your view of war, your politics. about your view of war, your politics. You said, "If you have the power like You said, "If you have the power like You said, "If you have the power like the United States, if you're going to the United States, if you're going to the United States, if you're going to talk tall and carry a big stick, talk tall and carry a big stick, talk tall and carry a big stick, eventually you've got to use it or eventually you've got to use it or eventually you've got to use it or they'll think you're bluffing." they'll think you're bluffing." they'll think you're bluffing." Does Rambo represent Does Rambo represent Does Rambo represent a part of like your worldview at that a part of like your worldview at that a part of like your worldview at that point as well? I mean, point as well? I mean, point as well? I mean, >> it did. And now I realize all war is >> it did. And now I realize all war is >> it did. And now I realize all war is futile. It's stupid. It's a it's a a futile. It's stupid. It's a it's a a futile. It's stupid. It's a it's a a mechanism to make tons of money for the mechanism to make tons of money for the mechanism to make tons of money for the war department and manufacturers and and war department and manufacturers and and war department and manufacturers and and these kids just going out there into a these kids just going out there into a these kids just going out there into a grisel being chopped up and no and then grisel being chopped up and no and then grisel being chopped up and no and then when they come back with no arms, oh, when they come back with no arms, oh, when they come back with no arms, oh, sorry, you're on your own. I hate it. I sorry, you're on your own. I hate it. I sorry, you're on your own. I hate it. I hate [clears throat] it and I I'm I'm hate [clears throat] it and I I'm I'm hate [clears throat] it and I I'm I'm bitterly opposed to it. But [snorts] at bitterly opposed to it. But [snorts] at bitterly opposed to it. But [snorts] at one time I was truly gung-ho. Really one time I was truly gung-ho. Really one time I was truly gung-ho. Really gung-ho. [snorts] And I don't know if I gung-ho. [snorts] And I don't know if I gung-ho. [snorts] And I don't know if I was just um trying to go against the was just um trying to go against the was just um trying to go against the current, you know, in Hollywood there's current, you know, in Hollywood there's current, you know, in Hollywood there's a certain dynamic as you know, but I I a certain dynamic as you know, but I I a certain dynamic as you know, but I I again I admit it was again I admit it was again I admit it was I think it's just naive really cuz I I think it's just naive really cuz I I think it's just naive really cuz I I've read a lot especially after first I've read a lot especially after first I've read a lot especially after first blood [snorts] and I go, "Wow, this is blood [snorts] and I go, "Wow, this is blood [snorts] and I go, "Wow, this is brutal. This is horrible. There's no brutal. This is horrible. There's no brutal. This is horrible. There's no glory in war. None. None.

glory in war. None. None. glory in war. None. None. >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> just >> just >> just >> when did you become anti-war? >> when did you become anti-war? >> when did you become anti-war? >> It's it's it's um look, if you're if >> It's it's it's um look, if you're if >> It's it's it's um look, if you're if you're under attack, of course you have you're under attack, of course you have you're under attack, of course you have to defend yourself, but I don't want to to defend yourself, but I don't want to to defend yourself, but I don't want to get into politics now, but all wars get into politics now, but all wars get into politics now, but all wars basically basically basically destroy both sides. I mean, it it really destroy both sides. I mean, it it really destroy both sides. I mean, it it really creates this horrible history. And you creates this horrible history. And you creates this horrible history. And you know, a lot of people don't get over it. know, a lot of people don't get over it. know, a lot of people don't get over it. They just don't. it it's grudges are They just don't. it it's grudges are They just don't. it it's grudges are held and you [snorts] know held and you [snorts] know held and you [snorts] know continents are d I mean countries are continents are d I mean countries are continents are d I mean countries are destroyed and lines are redrawn for what destroyed and lines are redrawn for what destroyed and lines are redrawn for what though though though >> I know you don't want to talk about >> I know you don't want to talk about >> I know you don't want to talk about politics um but politics um but politics um but >> I I am interested in something you just >> I I am interested in something you just >> I I am interested in something you just said which is um this idea of Hollywood said which is um this idea of Hollywood said which is um this idea of Hollywood being liberal and you being seen as a being liberal and you being seen as a being liberal and you being seen as a political conservative [clears throat] political conservative [clears throat] political conservative [clears throat] >> did that put you at odds in what was >> did that put you at odds in what was >> did that put you at odds in what was perceived as a liberal industry Or is perceived as a liberal industry Or is perceived as a liberal industry Or is that perception actually wrong? I mean, that perception actually wrong? I mean, that perception actually wrong? I mean, >> it it it is wrong because um I totally >> it it it is wrong because um I totally >> it it it is wrong because um I totally understand why the perception is like understand why the perception is like understand why the perception is like indulable, you know, when you when Rocky indulable, you know, when you when Rocky indulable, you know, when you when Rocky came out, I was so naive. I'd never even came out, I was so naive. I'd never even came out, I was so naive. I'd never even voted. I was like pushing 30 years old.

voted. I was like pushing 30 years old. voted. I was like pushing 30 years old. I had zero. I didn't even know what the I had zero. I didn't even know what the I had zero. I didn't even know what the difference between a Democrat and difference between a Democrat and difference between a Democrat and Republican. I I function in another Republican. I I function in another Republican. I I function in another universe. universe. universe. But when Rocky wrapped himself in a flag But when Rocky wrapped himself in a flag But when Rocky wrapped himself in a flag and that sort of thing and every movie and that sort of thing and every movie and that sort of thing and every movie we were up against at that time in we were up against at that time in we were up against at that time in competition was very very heavy, very competition was very very heavy, very competition was very very heavy, very political. I mean just the extremely political. I mean just the extremely political. I mean just the extremely aerodite and intellectual and Rocky was aerodite and intellectual and Rocky was aerodite and intellectual and Rocky was not that. It was emotional and I think not that. It was emotional and I think not that. It was emotional and I think that's that right away put me over here. that's that right away put me over here. that's that right away put me over here. And then when I did First Blood, I again And then when I did First Blood, I again And then when I did First Blood, I again I had no idea that there was such a I had no idea that there was such a I had no idea that there was such a chasm [snorts and clears throat] between chasm [snorts and clears throat] between chasm [snorts and clears throat] between the left and the right and you know me, the left and the right and you know me, the left and the right and you know me, you know, being jingoistic. He's a saber you know, being jingoistic. He's a saber you know, being jingoistic. He's a saber rattler. he's going to. It it it was rattler. he's going to. It it it was rattler. he's going to. It it it was again naivity on my part, but yes, it it again naivity on my part, but yes, it it again naivity on my part, but yes, it it caused a a major riff and I I wish it caused a a major riff and I I wish it caused a a major riff and I I wish it wasn't like that because I I really wasn't like that because I I really wasn't like that because I I really think a lot of these actors have great think a lot of these actors have great think a lot of these actors have great empathy, great heart, and they're empathy, great heart, and they're empathy, great heart, and they're they're really more for the working man they're really more for the working man they're really more for the working man kind of thing. They're just down in the kind of thing. They're just down in the kind of thing. They're just down in the trenches and that's where I live. You trenches and that's where I live. You trenches and that's where I live. You know what I mean? But I'm not uh know what I mean? But I'm not uh know what I mean? But I'm not uh considered that. And sometimes, you considered that. And sometimes, you considered that. And sometimes, you know, you say things that you don't um know, you say things that you don't um know, you say things that you don't um you don't realize the long range you don't realize the long range you don't realize the long range effects.

effects. effects. [sighs and gasps] [sighs and gasps] [sighs and gasps] >> So, you're currently in Tulsa King, >> So, you're currently in Tulsa King, >> So, you're currently in Tulsa King, which is a Taylor Sheridan series. Um which is a Taylor Sheridan series. Um which is a Taylor Sheridan series. Um it's coming up on its fourth season. it's coming up on its fourth season. it's coming up on its fourth season. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Um at this point in your career, what >> Um at this point in your career, what >> Um at this point in your career, what keeps bringing you back to the screen? I keeps bringing you back to the screen? I keeps bringing you back to the screen? I mean, this is no longer that you have mean, this is no longer that you have mean, this is no longer that you have anything left to prove. Uh, this is now anything left to prove. Uh, this is now anything left to prove. Uh, this is now >> it's not about proving. >> it's not about proving. >> it's not about proving. >> Well, not proving, but this >> Well, not proving, but this >> Well, not proving, but this >> No, but I know exactly what you mean. >> No, but I know exactly what you mean. >> No, but I know exactly what you mean. Like, what do you have to prove? Like, what do you have to prove? Like, what do you have to prove? >> It's like a racehorse. You just keep >> It's like a racehorse. You just keep >> It's like a racehorse. You just keep going until it it falls down. It doesn't going until it it falls down. It doesn't going until it it falls down. It doesn't know how to walk. It knows how to know how to walk. It knows how to know how to walk. It knows how to [clears throat and snorts] run. And And [clears throat and snorts] run. And And [clears throat and snorts] run. And And it's like it's almost like breathing. it's like it's almost like breathing. it's like it's almost like breathing. You know what I mean? Like some it's You know what I mean? Like some it's You know what I mean? Like some it's like I talked to Alba Den. Guys, like I talked to Alba Den. Guys, like I talked to Alba Den. Guys, [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] this is the you are that animal. You this is the you are that animal. You this is the you are that animal. You cease to exist without this format. cease to exist without this format. cease to exist without this format. It just it's what gives you life. It just it's what gives you life. It just it's what gives you life. >> You said something in our first >> You said something in our first >> You said something in our first interview that really caught my ear. You interview that really caught my ear. You interview that really caught my ear. You said um quote that you can see the light said um quote that you can see the light said um quote that you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, which I took at the end of the tunnel, which I took at the end of the tunnel, which I took to mean sort of the end of you know your to mean sort of the end of you know your to mean sort of the end of you know your life. And I was wondering how you feel life. And I was wondering how you feel life. And I was wondering how you feel about death and how you feel about that about death and how you feel about that about death and how you feel about that there is less time in front of you than there is less time in front of you than there is less time in front of you than there is behind you.

there is behind you. there is behind you. >> Yeah. In panic mode. >> Yeah. In panic mode. >> Yeah. In panic mode. >> Really? >> Really? >> Really? >> Well, because that's what I said before. >> Well, because that's what I said before. >> Well, because that's what I said before. You know, I built a a castle with You know, I built a a castle with You know, I built a a castle with thousands of stones made of regrets and thousands of stones made of regrets and thousands of stones made of regrets and I'm [snorts] trying to make up for it in I'm [snorts] trying to make up for it in I'm [snorts] trying to make up for it in my own petty way. And I don't know if my own petty way. And I don't know if my own petty way. And I don't know if there's enough time. And then I go, there's enough time. And then I go, there's enough time. And then I go, there is not enough time. What I have to there is not enough time. What I have to there is not enough time. What I have to do is just focus on the ones that really do is just focus on the ones that really do is just focus on the ones that really need me and the ones that I want to go need me and the ones that I want to go need me and the ones that I want to go on and have their own life and legacy. on and have their own life and legacy. on and have their own life and legacy. And I'm at the point now, you know, at And I'm at the point now, you know, at And I'm at the point now, you know, at 78, you're kind of like, cow. It's where 78, you're kind of like, cow. It's where 78, you're kind of like, cow. It's where the insurance company goes, you know, the insurance company goes, you know, the insurance company goes, you know, that's the average. So I'm two years on that's the average. So I'm two years on that's the average. So I'm two years on borrowed time and I'm making up for it borrowed time and I'm making up for it borrowed time and I'm making up for it as much as I can. You're never too old as much as I can. You're never too old as much as I can. You're never too old to be in love. Never too old to dance to be in love. Never too old to dance to be in love. Never too old to dance with the great memories that you've had with the great memories that you've had with the great memories that you've had and not wallow in the worst [gasps] and not wallow in the worst [gasps] and not wallow in the worst [gasps] swamp of all, which is the swamp of swamp of all, which is the swamp of swamp of all, which is the swamp of loneliness. That is truly premature loneliness. That is truly premature loneliness. That is truly premature burial.

burial. burial. >> Well, thank you for the gift of all >> Well, thank you for the gift of all >> Well, thank you for the gift of all those characters and thank you for your those characters and thank you for your those characters and thank you for your time, [music] time, [music] time, [music] >> Sylvester Stallone. I appreciate it. >> Sylvester Stallone. I appreciate it. >> Sylvester Stallone. I appreciate it. >> Thank you. I appreciate it. Keep >> Thank you. I appreciate it. Keep >> Thank you. I appreciate it. Keep punching. >> [music] >> [music] >> That's Sylvester Stallone. And a note, >> That's Sylvester Stallone. And a note, >> That's Sylvester Stallone. And a note, we reached out to Devo for comment after we reached out to Devo for comment after we reached out to Devo for comment after this interview, and a spokesperson this interview, and a spokesperson this interview, and a spokesperson replied that while they've not read the replied that while they've not read the replied that while they've not read the book, they respect Mr. Stallone's quote book, they respect Mr. Stallone's quote book, they respect Mr. Stallone's quote right [music] to tell his story his own right [music] to tell his story his own right [music] to tell his story his own way, take his account seriously, and are way, take his account seriously, and are way, take his account seriously, and are sorry for any trauma he remembers sorry for any trauma he remembers sorry for any trauma he remembers experiencing. His memoir, [music] The experiencing. His memoir, [music] The experiencing. His memoir, [music] The Steps, will be published on September Steps, will be published on September Steps, will be published on September 29th. To watch this interview and many 29th. To watch this interview and many 29th. To watch this interview and many others, you can subscribe to our YouTube others, you can subscribe to our YouTube others, you can subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com/syblethe channel at youtube.com/syblethe channel at youtube.com/syblethe podcast. This conversation was produced podcast. This conversation was produced podcast. This conversation was produced by [music] Seth Kelly. It was edited by by [music] Seth Kelly. It was edited by by [music] Seth Kelly. It was edited by John Woo. Mixing by Safhia Landman. John Woo. Mixing by Safhia Landman. John Woo. Mixing by Safhia Landman. Original music by Dan Powell and Marian Original music by Dan Powell and Marian Original music by Dan Powell and Marian Lozano. Photography [music] by Philip Lozano. Photography [music] by Philip Lozano. Photography [music] by Philip Montgomery. The rest of the team is Pria Montgomery. The rest of the team is Pria Montgomery. The rest of the team is Pria Matthew, Wyatt Orm, Powella Nudorf, Matthew, Wyatt Orm, Powella Nudorf, Matthew, Wyatt Orm, Powella Nudorf, [music] Joe Bil Munos, Eddie Costas, [music] Joe Bil Munos, Eddie Costas, [music] Joe Bil Munos, Eddie Costas, Mark ZL, Gabby Contraras, Kathleen Mark ZL, Gabby Contraras, Kathleen Mark ZL, Gabby Contraras, Kathleen O'Brien, [music] and Brooke Mentors. Our O'Brien, [music] and Brooke Mentors. Our O'Brien, [music] and Brooke Mentors. Our executive producer is Allison Benedict.

executive producer is Allison Benedict. executive producer is Allison Benedict. Next week, David interviews Chris Rock. Next week, David interviews Chris Rock. Next week, David interviews Chris Rock. I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro, and this is the I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro, and this is the I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro, and this is the interview from the New York Times.