IoT Coffee Talk: Episode 337 - "The Next Gajillion Dollar TAM!" (Don't count on it)

[music] HEAT. HEAT. [music] >> [music] [music] >> WOW. There you go. >> Wow. >> That's the way you start. Well, that's a good way to start. We're awake now. Wow. >> I was going to say, >> whoa, whoa, we are wide awake. Wow. >> Yeah. Welcome to IoT Coffee Talk. And now I got to go. I have to jump on another call. But have fun. I'll be right back.

>> All right. We'll see you on the other side. Yeah. >> He's a rockar. It's just like doing the intro and then runs away. >> It's like mic drop, right? Guitar guitar drop. Right. >> Exactly. So, what are we going to talk about today? >> Rob's assistant entered the waiting room. What the hell is that? >> Uhoh. [laughter] >> Is that some kind of note takingaking AI thing? >> It's some anthropic agent that's out of control. >> You're not We're not admitting you to this. You can just stay in the waiting room. >> There you go. >> Super important, right? That means there's something happening here. If AI is trying to break in. >> That's true. That's true. This is like breaking into NORAD or something like that. I don't know. Yeah, something like that. Wow. So, I was trying to understand. I was trying to figure out what Leonard was playing there on the guitar. At first, I thought it was Unchained by Van Halen, but it might not have been. So, I don't know. >> It's a good guess. It's usually a Van Halen song. So, >> he really has a not very broad repertoire. It's either Van Halen or Van Halen. [laughter] >> Van Halen will >> Yeah. [laughter] and and you know since David Lee Roth can't even stay his in his own band without getting fired from his own band and I I think it's time for a tribute band for Van Halen that's you know don't you think >> I I thought you were going to say David

Lee Roth tribute band cuz that >> even more obscure >> that would be obscure [laughter] absolutely oh my god good times all right all right welcome to IoT coffee talk we made it back we're alive another week. Everybody's been on the road at different events and stuff and >> Yes. Yes. >> Stephanie said she might drop in later, but she like got home at 4:00 a.m. from the Qualcom. >> She was in San Diego, right? Yeah. The Qualcom. >> Yeah. >> I missed that unfortunately. I landed uh you know, we had this event in Taipei last week, which was a lot of fun. Happy to talk about it. >> But the we kind of ran head first into this typhoon, typhoon champion, super typhoon actually. >> Wow. So our day two was cut short um >> because the government did a shutdown. So we only did our AGIS startup pitch competition kind of just with a [clears throat] small group >> and then everyone sort of went back to their hotels which was fun. >> Yeah.

>> But um but then my flight got delayed. I was supposed to fly out Saturday, got pushed to Monday. >> Oh. So, hung out for the weekend and then landed Monday morning and then the I was supposed to go to Qualcomm on Tuesday, but I wanted to do a 24-hour turnaround and just I couldn't do it. So, >> so I kind of skipped all the Dragon Wing, >> right? >> Fiesta, whatever. I don't know, Olivia, if you were down there. >> I was not down there. That's interesting. Missing missing my own event, right? [laughter] >> Yeah. >> I know. What the heck? >> Like it was pretty rocking. I know Stephanie was there. [clears throat] Leonard was there. >> Um, folks are down there. >> Yeah. One of my people I work with closely, Sarah Lee from IDC, she was there and got some pictures with Leonard. And so I'm glad they all got to meet up. >> Pictured with Leonard. That's that's the >> that's what people are hoping to get is like a picture with Leonard at an event, you know, to to post. >> Did they have like the cardboard cutout of Leonard he could stand next [laughter] to, >> right? >> Look, I'm here with Leonard Lee.

>> Yeah, [laughter] exactly. It's I'm so hot now. Oh my gosh. >> You put some Van Halen music in the background. That's right. With the Van Halen, of course, playing in the background. >> Yeah. One break coming up. Yeah. Anyway, >> so yeah, I know it sounded like it was a big uh robust um event down there with >> Yeah. >> chalk full of Qualcomm goodies and um in San Diego and not as cool as going to Maui. You know, they have that Snapdragon summit in Maui. >> You can't top that. That's awesome. >> That's pretty sweet. But uh San Diego, you know, this time of year, it's nice. Nice break. Not bad. But uh it's >> not bad. >> Yeah. And I heard bunch of good things about the event. I'm partial, but uh I heard good things. >> You a little biased. >> Tell us more. A little biased. >> Tell us [laughter] more. >> Our audience wants to know. Yeah. >> Qualcomm is my employer. Big disclaimer. Yes, >> that's right. But uh but no in general I think the the the shift towards different markets and verticals from all the companies not just Qualcomm actually like Nvidia is doing similar thing AMD is looking into that as well all the silicon >> vendors they are looking at how do they diversify versus you know being on one piece of the market and and try to to win that one trying to be in more places. So, is it because we don't know which market will really work or is it because it's going to be everywhere?

>> I think the markets I mean I saw some Gartner data on um no offense Rob I know you're an IDC guy but >> which got triggered >> um >> uh but Gartner was saying like going like 2025 about 10% of enterprises had deployed like an Edgi solution that was going to go to like 70% by like 2029 or something like that. Um so I think there is a lot more deployment going on you know to your point Olivier and I so I think there's uh a lot more business to be had and as Nvidia sort of you know eats its own tail in the data center uh >> you know people are like maybe I should try something else >> um because this is where uh and again I'll show my bias running the AJI Foundation that the AI workloads are all migrating to the edge basically. over time. That's just kind of the gravitational pull. >> Yeah. No, I think I read that on the front page of the Wall Street Journal. It said all AI is gravitating to the edge. >> That's it.

>> I saw I saw it in the New York Times, too. So, it must be real. >> But actually, Lisa Sue, you mentioned Lisa recently, she did a whole uh spiel about their AI anywhere strategy, you know, which is very edge-based. And she said that their edge business was growing at about 40% Kagger. >> Wow. That's huge. >> Huge. So for people out there [clears throat] >> AI the AI market in general is 20% Kagger plus or so in the um edge AI is typically I've seen 20 to 30% KAGER and she was saying their AMD business was at 40% Kager which is >> crazy and it was like a she claimed it was like a$ two trillion dollar market. Um >> oh hurry write that down for all you edge >> as long as it has a T in it. As long as it has a T in it [laughter] then we're in business. So uh so we're getting you know not only Nula Qualcomm but Lisa Sue and these other folks kind of getting religion on running AI you know where the data is created or closer to that um as sort of the >> ultimately that's that's where things are heading. We can argue about how long it's going to take you know but um it's happening for sure. So, it's it's cool to see >> and with Qualcomm, you know, >> that's not an event they could have held like two or three years ago, you know, it would have been much smaller and >> couple of things, you know, but now it's a big there's a lot of stuff going on.

Lots of stuff to talk about. >> Yeah. Is this was this I mean, I feel like I've been hearing and seeing Dragon Wing stuff for quite a while now and yet I've heard that this was actually the coming out party or launch party for Dragon Wing. Is that a fair assessment, Olivier? No, I think I don't feel it like that because Dragon Wing has been discussed and announced and out there for some time already. >> Last embedded world, I think. >> Yeah. Yeah. And so I think there is there's something to say about the fact that the story is being straightened out. It's not there yet in terms of how do you go from one of these platforms to another one cuz as we know that microcontroller tiny thing down there, that Linux box here, and that server here at the edge, they're not the same hardware. They're not the same thing. >> But how do you distribute and orchestrate your models across all of that? I think >> the I think Qualcomm is putting once again bias my employer but u I think Qualcomm is putting lots of effort in trying to to deliver some solutions based on standards that will allow to have an easy way to distribute your intelligence across the different types of edges >> um in in a way that is simpler. I mean uh we are aren't we losing embedded developers and people who know how to do hardware optimization and so on. So in which case we need to have tools to do it for them >> you know AI >> you don't have to know anything anymore.

No, you don't have to know. [laughter] >> Just the outcome. Just say what the outcome >> until things go wrong, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. I just I just it just seemed like a big dragon wing coming out party because you had the big guns there. You had Cristiano there. And so that tells me that was a big big big event. It wasn't just some obscure niche. Oh, here let's do a little clubhouse thing with the embedded people. >> Me and my friends. >> Yeah, me and my friends. It was like no, we got the CEO. >> No, it's a big It is big. It's a major business and there's major ecosystem partners behind what they're doing and what NXP is doing and what uh everybody's doing in the space. So, it's really it's cool to see even in Taiwan like our Taiwan event was almost twice the size of what we did last year which was twice the size of the year before that >> and um you know we had Dell and Intel there and AWS and we had you know big big dogs as well as little dogs >> and uh and a lot of local Taiwan startups too like our startup pitch competition was was robust. >> That's great.

>> Uh audio kind of really cool audio AI. Um, >> audio AI is that like big audio dynamite? >> Yes, exactly. >> Okay. >> Just checking. >> So, that's good. >> But, um, >> I mistered. >> Yeah. No, people are doing some cool stuff. We met with And then we had like media tech and real tech and >> the techs advante. Um, all the all the techs were there. >> All the techs were there. >> And, um, I'm gonna go talk to the see the startups. You know, that's that's kind of a leading indicator. If you have startups that are funded that are doing cool stuff in a space and there must be something going on there. Um, >> how do we feel about MediaTek? Are they still kind of do we think of them still as a second tier deal? >> I like MediaTek. They are, you know, >> I think they came on the scene in the phone space at sort of like uh I mean this is probably not going to sound great, but like 80% is good for half the price. You know what I mean? Like >> Yeah. Yeah. Right.

>> This is not a bad strategy. Um, aren't the Google Pixel smartphones using media? >> Yeah, they're really all into Google and their stuff is great. They have some really high performance stuff, too. >> Yeah. >> Um, but they're they're very, you know, super high volume, super scale, and they've had sort of these embedded IoT things for a while. Um, which are now picking up some steam, which is cool to see. >> Wow. >> So, they're another scale partner. >> Mhm. >> Out there. And yeah, I think the Taiwan thing was interesting to just to see the maturity of the space like you said, San Diego event, Taiwan, all this stuff's kind of happening. And um >> yeah, >> meanwhile, data center AI is, you know, uh turning into a hellscape. Um it's sort of like the most hated technology since the electric chair at this point. So, >> especially if you're a Gen Z, >> Gen Z. Well, every every [laughter] >> even in we had the Seattle Tech Week, right? And all these protesters were disrupting. Oh, yeah. Someone from Open AI is on stage and someone comes in, they're like jumping the stage and like all this stuff's going on like >> it's uh it's it's getting pretty serious.

>> Kind of like kind of like Paris. Is it serious like that? like there fires everywhere and >> people >> the emotions of data centers being built in people's communities >> you know the effect of open AI and anthropic on you know chat bots for uh effect on children >> uh data breaches with agents that are you know un they don't they're not discovered until much later um somehow between you know Mark and Elon and Dario and Sam, they have uh somehow figured out a way to have the whole world hate AI basically. >> It's like congratulations. >> Congratulations. >> Here we go. Look at this. Look at this. This is an authentic newspaper [laughter] >> that he's pointing. He's pointing his camera at an actual Look at that. AI must be true. >> Must be true. >> Must be true. Oh, look. Oh, is Oh. Oh, wait. Wait, wait. What's going on here?

[laughter] Awesome. >> That's great. I love that. I love that. That's really good, man. You're really good with that AI stuff, dude. Wow. Wow. People are going to start firebombing your house, >> assuming your tokens. [laughter] >> Yeah, exactly. No, that's the thing. It's turned into this tech that everybody hates, which is kind of shocking if you think about I think we've had this discussion before back in the day, like when the internet, you know, we had the web >> that was like all positive vibes, right? People were like, "Cool, I can like order a pizza and I can see my grandma and like these were all positive things." >> Yeah. >> And then the social media companies kind of peed in the pool, right? >> Big time. >> Yes. And we got Cambridge Analytica, you know, hanging out with Facebook. >> Now it's now it's gone to the next level of like we hate this >> Isn't that wild? And and so but but everyone's using it every day. They're saying they hate it, but you know, they're using it maybe. Well, in fact, in many cases, they're using it. They don't even know they're using it. So, >> Right. Right. >> It begs the question, you know, all technology in their early days had some very negative press and and people then learned how to use it versus just being super stressed about it and and rejecting things. And, you know, at some point, people just learn how to use it.

it's more regulated and it takes some time but then it just gets into the habits like >> I think there's that adoption hump you know going back to the the lites and the the the looms you know >> yes >> the automobile right uh but this one feels different this one's you know and part of it is because I think the kind of the tech oligarchs have kind of gone way overboard on data center buildout and acquisition of land and paying off governments, you know, and just all this stuff that's like everyone just hates. >> Is it something that has changed or is it just that now we know about it? >> I think they've done it to like more orders of magnitude than ever before. >> Are you like putting the AI people in the same group as like the oil companies? [clears throat] >> I think they would aspire to be oil companies at this point. >> I mean, when you're talking >> I think they'd aspire to be cigarette companies at this point. when you when you because when you were talking about you know the people all these people hating AI and yet they interact with it like every day maybe they don't even know it I was having flashback to everyone's favorite TV show if you live in the UK Land Man out in West Texas there was a a great do monologue that John Ham did where he's like they hate me they hate you for use for making a product that they interact with every day and just get over it [laughter] >> you But I think I think the hate is is centered around, you know, fear, right?

But I think when people start learning about biological computing and wear, I think they're going to have something to really hate at that point, you know. >> Yeah. >> Uh so I don't I don't think AI is a big concern, but it shouldn't be a big concern anyway, right? >> There you go. It's not really a concern. You heard it here from Tom White. Don't worry [laughter] about everything. We get proof every day that it's a big concern. Um >> no's there's one aspect of this too which is you know like everything when they start causing damage people will straighten things up as in security and so on cuz as long as it was humans trying to hack systems the level of security did not need to be that high and so people became complacent and now there's like humans augmented by AI or AI starting attacking them now they have to straighten things up and cyber security levels will be higher I mean, that's the way I'm I'm seeing it. Might take some time. >> No, you're right. We didn't have to worry when it was just stupid monkey brain people to I'm not that smart, so we're okay. But now, you're right. We have AI that's discovering all the kind of like >> PHP turn that on. You need to turn on your security. Uh >> turn it on. Just hit that little slider that turns on security is on now.

Exactly. Firewall is on. I just saw a deal this morning. Um there was some flaw in the Linux kernel >> um that I just read about this morning and people were quickly trying to patch that which they I guess I'm you know I can't say that I'm a deep deep security guy but they were I guess they have a ranking out of 10 on how bad things are. >> I think they said this was a 9.8 eight out of a [laughter] 10 and so much of the planet is running Linux web servers, right? So, yeah, could be a problem. You know, >> that's another reason why you should switch to Windows Server, formerly known as Windows NT. >> There you go. I thought you were going to say OS2. >> I was normally I would OS2 land man land manager was land server was a great product, but I I I got religion when we got NT advanced server >> 3.1. I'm on. So, that's funny. I asked Claude a question last week. I don't know why this popped in my head because I was thinking about the dominance of Linux and the server space. And I guess most phones secretly have it hiding underneath Android. Um, and I was like, why does Microsoft still charge money for Windows Server given that so much of the world is now using Linux for servers and it's free? And if they're not doing that, they're using the cloud, which is a totally different model. And I asked Claude, what was the deal with that? And

it came back and said that sales have skyrocketing for Windows Server and they're making more money on Windows Server than they ever had, which I did not expect. I figured it was just trending down and, you know, no one was going to use it anymore. And I was just like, why was that the case? And it's like there's still lots of companies now this could change obviously that that some software man you know for server software they'll say they've got things in their license that say you can't run our software on either unsupported or communityup supported operating systems >> which was one explanation I know that doesn't cover everything but I just thought it was interesting because I assume that you know you because Microsoft always had the four horsemen Windows Office, SQL Server, and Windows Server were the four primary money makers. >> Uh, but the world has changed and so I >> maybe there's there's a market there for, you know, uh, more secure, highly supported commercial uh, service software that you pay for.

>> Yeah. >> That's why SAS apocalypse will not happen. People forget you have to host it. You have to maintain it. you have to, you know, uh, you know, manage the quality of the code base and all that stuff. I mean, that's what you pay engineers for. >> Yeah. I I my my theory for Windows Server working that well is that lawyers decide what you buy because of liability [clears throat] >> and lawyers are looking at oh Microsoft has this you know this insurance that it's Microsoft and so if something goes wrong with Windows Server >> someone on the phone >> well something not even someone on the phone it's like from the legal perspective >> can wash their hand and say oh big Microsoft is to be blamed for that. >> Yeah, good point. That's a great point. You know, I do remember uh in the evolution of Azure, remember how we had like kind of I don't it wasn't the official countdown to Linux surpassing Windows Server on Azure cuz for the longest time it was, you know, Windows Server dominated, but little by little.

Um but a big thing that was holding it back as I remember was we did not have support for Red Hat Linux for the longest time. And so we had CentOS and a lot of those kind of other free things. And the but our Salesforce, which is probably the best Salesforce on the planet that Microsoft has, the feedback was always these companies will not adopt Linux in our VMs until you support Red Hat. Cuz Red Hat's the only supported version of Linux or you have a throat to choke, you know. And I remember how big a deal that was to get that deal done with the Red Hat folks. You know, this is way before the IBM acquisition. >> Um, so yeah, I guess that does mean something somewhere. Support, liability, who's backing it up. >> Uh, cuz in a world of a bunch of free Linux distributions with nobody standing behind them, you know. >> Yeah. >> I think it's mis it's misplaced fear again, right? Like you spoke about AI and everyone hating AI. Well, you know, they're fearful and it's the same as open source.

>> You know, it's a fear that there's no one centrally govern it with the liability. So, Olivia, I think you're right with that, right? Um, you know, it's just fearongering and and so on. >> I I don't I don't think it's fear-mongering. I mean, there's again, it goes back to some of the foundational utilities that um, you know, companies you that it you need to make it enterprisegrade. You need to make it >> all these different grades. And there's a lot more >> to these businesses and the value that they bring, right? Software businesses than just the code or the software. And this is this is the problem. Uh people don't understand the software industry. It's freaking funny. You listen to these guys on CNBC, some of the software ISV guys, they don't even recognize clearly what they do fundamentally. What makes them different from just open source, right? I it it it's quite comical. Just >> watch TV, watch some of these CEOs of the top ISVS, man. They don't know what their own business. it cuz if they knew their business, they would be able to sell much better the value versus this whole SAS apocalypse narrative. You know, the only thing they say is, well,

you know, I I you know, we use AI, too. [snorts] That's the that's the best you can do. >> So, basically, we need to bring in the Bobs >> and sit across the table and say, "What is it you say you do here?" Exactly. [laughter] Exactly. I mean, at the end of the day, consultants matter, right? >> I take the requirements from the customer and I give it to the engineer. >> Yeah. >> The engineers don't know how to talk to people. You know, >> I'M A PEOPLE PERSON. CAN'T YOU GET THAT THROUGH YOUR SKULL? >> NO. Think [laughter] about >> I'VE GOT PEOPLE SKILLS. >> YEAH. Did you guys talk about the um the Binance thing? >> No. Why don't you take us there? >> Yeah. [clears throat] That's a group of people that wish that uh Binance was, >> you know, banking grade, right? >> It just ends up if North Korea steals your you're out of luck. You got then you got these these bozos going off and trying to complain to the FDIC. That's for banks, not for crypto. You know, it should never be for crypto.

it it's completely unregulated. It's dangerous and people are getting they're finding out now, right? And it's going to only get worse because there's only going to get worse. >> We have sort of gotten this mindset around tech where anything around safety, security, and regulatory practices is bad. >> Yeah. >> And and throw stuff out there. I mean, anthropic and open AI are great examples. They throw stuff out there. you know, all these horrible instances of chat GPT engaging with children and terrible things happening and people, you know, killing themselves and all this other stuff totally unregulated. >> And, you know, and then the, you know, doing all these experiments with the Gentic AI that's, you know, don't even they don't even tell people all the breaches that are happening. So, there's probably a thousand times more stuff we don't even know about. And it's all like, well, we have to do it fast and otherwise, you know, someone else is going to do it and we're gonna lose the And this is like really bad.

Uh, I don't know if it's technical practice is even the word. It's just culturally in the tech world. We've I think it all started with uh overtheair updates. I think that's what the problem was when people started to ship software and realized they could update the software after they shipped it. Then people started to ship crap and uh we'll fix it later. So he's like, "Well, now we're just going to ship stuff and we'll fix it later. We'll we'll regulate ourselves later." And that's turning into a disaster. [clears throat] And before he came on, Leonard, we were talking about the, you know, how how AI has become sort of the most hated technology since the electric chair at this point. Like [laughter] people just hate AI. >> That bad. >> It's that bad. Or maybe the trebushchet. Is that what it's called? That thing. [laughter] >> So guillotine. Guillotine. >> Guillotine would be another example. Uh but yeah, you know, somehow the world is now hates this stuff and thanks to Sam and and Dario and all these guys >> and um and part of it is because they're just shipping out there. >> It's wild and free.

>> Wild and free and uh just to see what happens. And then now we're seeing what happens. >> Can't you see right now? Can't you see Sam Alman standing there like in Versailles and him just looking out at all the masses and just say, "Let them eat cake, [laughter] right? let them generate cake. [laughter] >> Well, yeah, >> Sam's that kind of person. Dario is not, but Sam, that guy is he's a different human being, you know. >> You know what? Yeah, it's hard to tell. Um, he just I think he just discovered how stupid people are. >> Uh, and that he can just tell an uncomfortable ridiculous nonsensical truth. Uh, like truth >> I'm surrounded by >> people take it completely the wrong way. [laughter] Yeah. No, I know. Well, again, Mark and Elon are in the same bucket, you know, just the bigger lie, you know, the greater fool theory >> of business. And uh I was actually talking to CNBC yesterday about AJI and >> Oh, yeah. I saw you on TV. That was great.

>> No, it was a report. It was not a TV thing. It was a a story. But she asked me about data centers in space. And I kind of held my tongue a little bit. I'm like, I'm not going to go full throttle on this thing, how stupid it is. Um, but I talked to her about how, you know, we're doing edge AI in space today. We're running it on satellites. We're running we're seeing algae blooms in water early and we're doing things. So AI is happening in space. You don't need to build a data center in space to do AI in space. But um but you know these that they are they you know this person had consumed this content this idea of a data center in space >> as a good idea because you know that's what Elon said and uh you know and there's no shortage of ways to to to debunk this crazy idea but people just want to believe it. Um, and these guys are in the business of selling the next story to sort of, you know, hype up the next IPO and the next >> just to keep this merrygoround going as fast as possible.

>> Yeah, exactly. And it it's unraveling. Um, power is going to be a big problem. Everyone knows that, but it's a bigger problem than I think people have led on. You know, they're throwing around these massive giga watt [clears throat] numbers. They're not going to happen. I don't think PE and then people don't know the difference between the actual uh compute capacity and the the um power generation capacity versus how much feed stock you actually need to support consumption. >> And then you know like you have some of these guys saying well you know [clears throat] consumers won't feel it you know we have we have our own power you need to feed it something, [clears throat] >> you know, unless you're going to go completely renewable. These guys are using natural gas and god [clears throat] knows what else. >> Um, and it's going to impact consumers like the >> chopping down clean. >> I mean, you know, at some point some of these guys are going to, you know, they're going to create like uh facilities. They're going to be two kinds. Number one, and mark my words, okay? one, we've already talked about it, the gym where they hire a bunch of, you know, they basically pay you to go and sit on a treadmill and power a data center. Number two, they're going to feed you. They're going to have old hot dog eating contests, okay? And then get people to fart into little tubes to generate methane.

>> And that's going to power [laughter] their behind the meter. I think they've already hooked up the pro club here in Belleview for that first scenario. So, uh, >> exactly. Where's Worse than that, Leonard? They will not pay people. They will have people pay to come on a treadmill. >> That's right. You have to pay per month. >> That's a business. >> Genius. Black Mirror strikes again. All right. Yeah. And forget about eating beef anymore because they're going to they're going to start, you know, moving all the cows. Well, I was thinking if you want to do a methane powered data center, you got a beef solution there, but that's a whole other discussion. [laughter] >> Yeah, we use methane for >> just gonna, you know, hey, think about how ridiculous things already are. >> If you take a step back and you contemplate how dumb all of this is, completely worthless. >> So, we've had a weird week this week. What are you thinking, Olivier? >> I was thinking about like it's not dumb to try and get cars to fly, is it? No, it's not dumb. Try it.

>> Not dumb, right? >> Hold my beer. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what they have to do is this this is what they have to do. They have to fix the downdraft problem. Otherwise, you're going to get a bunch of insurance companies uh you know, calling your insurance company for damaging everyone's cars and houses in your neighborhood. [clears throat] >> All right. So, something weird happened this week and Leonard, >> I had a long week, guys. >> You know, while we were all away at our events, I was at Oracle Open AI World, whatever it was. Sam was there. He got more applause than Clay did, and Clay was kind of disappointed. Oh, well, >> nobody knows who Clay is. >> He's just the CEO of the company. But anyway [laughter] you know, it's like, well, you're not Larry, so who the hell are you? Yeah. >> Um, but and I'm going to start with Tom. Lon and I have been already chatting about this and with Stephanie too. There's something weird going on this week. Not related to tech. Tom, did you get some message in the UK telling you that you need to stock up on stuff to be sustainable for some amount of days?

>> Really? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, so we're really underprepared, right, in the UK in general, uh, compared to a lot of other countries. and and Andy Burnham, our our new prime minister, told everyone to go and stock up for at least 3 days >> with water and tinned food. >> And we are the most anxious of people at the best of times. So it caused havoc basically. Yeah. And um and that was the message that came out. >> Wait, wait, wait. >> Yeah. I heard about this and and well, but that's that's what we're going to try to figure out on the show is why >> the Japanese prime minister had come out and said the same thing to the people of Japan. I don't know how many days they said to stock up on food, energy, whatever, water. Um, and then I started seeing it go around the world. Different countries in Europe were starting to say it. And then we started hearing it in the US. Um, >> we need to buy your Trump stakes. by drumstakes [laughter] >> by drum stakes.

>> Three days worth of drum stakes. >> But what we heard in the US at the beginning of the week, it wasn't like to the citizens, Pete Hegsth, who's the the head of the Department of Defense, he came out and said that every US military base needs to be able to be self-sufficient for 90 days. No supply chain, no power, no nothing. They need to be able to have all their food, water energy ammunition everything they need to keep trucking for 90 days, assuming massive cyber attacks or actual kinetic attacks have happened. And so that happened. And so now all of a sudden, this whole week going around the globe with the leaders of all these countries telling their citizens to get ready for something is >> by the way, I'll be right back. I need to get some toilet paper. >> Yeah, sure you can. [laughter] Is there something we don't know? Is this just some Is this like meaningless and they're just And then everybody's kind of like, "Oh, well that guy said it, so we better do it, too." Or is something big about to happen that we don't know about?

>> I don't know. >> Aliens are coming. Aliens aliens are arriving. That's the thing we can actually >> Yeah. >> Did you see Disclosure Day? >> Yeah, we did. We did. You know what? Actually, I think alien arrival arrival might be the best thing that could happen to us at this point because I feel like we're on edge about to kill each other. Yeah. And the AI thing is about to kill all of us and all that fun stuff. And if all of a sudden aliens came in, all of a sudden all attention goes to that and >> Independence Day. >> Independence Day. Exactly. You know, >> like the economics of it for an alien civilization is not good. They would just have to come wait a little bit few years wait for us to eradicate each other and then they can just you know land on the planet and then use resources right that would be >> fine better plan >> is that why you know what on YouTube I keep getting these videos u vignettes uh from that movie um the fifth wave and it's it's about exactly that >> I don't know [clears throat] that the when the this um obelligerent alien race. It It goes through an entire series of um things, waves uh to eradicate humans. And that that's exactly what they do. They use pestilence and then um they turn humans against each other.

>> They didn't use lasers and >> then they start building data centers and uh >> yeah, >> we're in that phase right now. the [laughter] it's like, you know, >> I can actually tell you what day they're going to arrive. >> I can tell you what day. Yes, it'll be November 17th. >> Oh, November 17. >> November 17th at 2:20 p.m. Eastern time. >> Okay, good to know. What year are you prepared? It's >> this year. >> This year is that. So, maybe that's why everybody's saying you need to prepare. >> If if that date doesn't mean anything, I just discovered that like reading some random news this morning. So, there's been an announcement that there will be a simulated uh emergency alert sent to everyone in the nation in the US and they're telling people what time and so it's Yes. It's going to be a fake alert, but it's going to like in the movie it's going to say, "Hey, that's going to work out great." Oh, great. Yeah. >> War of the Worlds again with people >> and people don't know it's coming cuz they're not reading the news.

>> People are morons, >> right? And people [laughter] were >> Yeah, exactly. >> But you know, uh, going back to Tom's comment though, you know, and he pro you you probably just triggered me. I was like, hey man, don't know what the hell you guys are talking about. You just triggered me. But this this goes probably back to Tom's comment about how people are just completely exaggerating and, you know, fear-mongering and doing all kinds of stupid stuff. That's the flip side of the coin, right? >> And and um, yeah, there's all kinds of I mean, it's just a freaking circus act. Do you believe it? It's like there's a there's a lot of uh kind of silly amplification, overamplification, but at the same time, there are a lot of really like nasty things happening too >> uh in the tech world around our privacy and our autonomy and and all of this stuff that's happening. And so the overreaction and the kind of the craziness is almost masking the real problems. >> Yeah. And and and and that's like misdirection, right? You know, the thing is is what you need to do is focus on the near-term problems. understand how do you prevent the exaggerated fear-mongering crap from happening? But when you focus on the fear-mongering junk that Tom was talking about, and correct me if I'm wrong, Tom, >> that that's just as bad, if not worse, because then you start to focus on things that really don't matter when the problem that you have to work is right in front of you, right?

>> Yeah. I I I think >> and I see this firsthand in the research that I do. It It's freaking hilar I mean it's not hilarious. It's just frustrating actually. >> I think I think it just centers around no one no one really knows right and and everyone just kind of copies each other but you have to be rational and that's the whole point you know is it is it better to overreact or to underprepare? >> I'm not sure. Right. Um but but you know obviously we've had a spate of attacks a PHP attack you know numerous systems have been going down etc because of AI agents just hacking non-stop probably right >> but you know what what what do you do >> not watch IoT coffee talk >> there you go step one >> step [clears throat] one >> watch IoT coffee talk I saw some comedian I was like some funny bit and she was saying like back in the day like Gen X we used to do this crazy thing and she's like no bear with me it was called it was called critical thinking And we used to like, you know, look at both sides of an issue. We used to sort of decide like what was actually [clears throat] happening.

>> And it was this crazy time where we had this thing we did called critical thinking. >> And uh yeah, part of it too is yeah, people are just quick to absorb whatever they read or see or hear. >> Yeah. >> And uh they without and just regurgitate it, you know, share share share like like. >> And uh the critical thinking skills have kind of gone out the window. But at the end of the day, I guess it gets back to education and getting how do you get people more educated about this stuff. >> Yeah. >> Um so that they could pause a little bit and and think about >> I tried I tried to pause but I got so freaked out by all this stuff I'm hearing this week and then something just came over me and I don't know where it came from but I was having dinner last night and I had mashed potatoes and I got my fork and I just started making this >> shape >> shape of my mashed potatoes, you know. Same here. I did the same thing last night >> and then that wasn't enough. And so then I went outside and I started pulling up plants and everything and dirt and just throwing it in through the window and then I created this giant >> and then I chopped off the top and I realized, >> oh, and it looks like Devil's Tower in Wyoming. And so uh and none of you got that anyway.

>> I got it. I got it. >> I know you got it. [laughter] We were carving our mashed potatoes at the same time >> cuz cuz basically Disclosure Day is a bookend, right, to Close Encounters. Um, >> yes. >> So, I did watch >> Good movie. Good movie. >> It was good. I did watch for fun cuz I hadn't watched it in a million years when I was cuz like when you're flying on airplanes and you go, "Oh, maybe I'll watch Close Encounters again." And it's been thousand years. And it was so cool to watch that. >> So good. Richard Drifus. So good. >> Yes. >> Okay. next week. >> All the things that had happened since then, all the weird podcasts that you listen to and stuff that's been on streaming where they have the French guy and all these other people that all this stuff that's happened through history and finding alien crash sightings and all this stuff and you always wonder what was the deal with the French guy kind of leading the deal in close encounters. And now I know it's cuz it was a real person like Spielberg did his homework. These were and Spielberg was totally into that stuff >> and as you know and so it I'd forgotten even how the movie started. It starts like out in a desert like in Africa or something and they find all these World War II planes and it turns out they're in perfect condition still at fuel. They turned right on and it's like where did this come from? Or then they go to Mongolia and there's this giant ship in sticking out of the ground in the desert. All this weird stuff >> and you're like h what's going on?

>> Yes. Disclosure Day. That's everyone's homework. Go watch Disclosure Day. >> Watch Disclosure Day because that kind of wraps up >> November 17. November 17th. >> Watch. Mark your calendars. >> November 17th. They're coming, right? >> So, you stock up on your tinned fish. >> Yes. And [laughter] And 10 hats. >> Yeah. >> And tin hat. Yeah. I think Costco has a bundle. [laughter] >> All your money in bitcoins. >> Hats and fish. >> Hats and fish. [gasps] Oh my gosh. I remember what was the movie uh Signs. And I remember walking in Phoenix and all [laughter] them sitting on the couch with the 10 hats cuz the aliens can read your thoughts. So you better I read in some book that if we wear 10 hats they can't read our thoughts. [laughter] >> That was a great movie. Signs. That was really good. >> Oh my gosh. Wow. Yeah. You really wonder what this show is really all about. It's really about music, culture, movies, stuff like that and a little bit of time. Well, you know, >> art imitates life and vice versa. >> Yeah.

But it's but you know what? Maybe we do that these days because we didn't do that too much in the past is because these are simple familiar things that might help people understand the dynamics. What's grip reality? >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Um some of these I mean you have some of these topics are complex right >> but these are yeah these are existential uh >> issues you know that we're sort of and we see our families struggling with >> difference between reality and fiction these days. >> Yeah. >> When that date comes that Olivier said what's it November what >> 17th. >> All right. What I heard though, hang out by the lake or whatever because I hear they don't like water, >> that they're afraid of water. So, >> and they don't like birds. >> So, just hang out by lakes and the ocean and you might be okay.

>> Little tidbit. >> Yeah. You know, don't know why they're invading a planet that's mostly covered in water, but you know, whatever. you know, >> or or or travel travel outside the US cuz like the US is preparing for 90 days and the rest of the world for 3 days. So that means that >> it's different though. Military bases. >> Military bases. >> Yeah. Military bases. >> You don't care about anything else here in the US, right? It's like a lot of bases. >> Yeah. >> Investor in some of these >> small modular reactor companies and things were great for a while and then I totally lost my ass. Remember, this is entertainment purposes only, folks. It's not financial information. >> Um, >> but with with Hegsth coming out and saying every base has to be self-sufficient, and they did talk about small nuclear reactors at every base so they can provide their own power without relying on the grid. >> I'm wondering, I haven't looked on the stock market to see if all the nuclear stocks have popped.

>> Probably not. That'll all be those will be uh natural gas um power plants that they'll put on those bases. So >> yeah, >> liquid natural gas or something. >> Well, I mean I don't I don't think it it's going to help in especially in like the Middle East where these hypersonic missiles can I mean the problem with the base is it it's stationary doesn't move. It's not like aircraft carrier >> but um that's >> all your bases are belong. >> Yeah. But the question is how much longer is a mobile base like a carrier >> exactly >> going to be Yeah. Um in fact it becomes a liability in some instances. >> And you know what you're totally align with General George Patton. He made comments he did not he made comments about the folly of fixed fortifications. >> He's like he goes it's stupid. You need to be mobile all the time. Obviously he was tank tank guy. It's like be moving.

And the best while I'm surprised you didn't pick on that one is submarine like nuclear submarine. >> Yeah. >> And just hide down there. Wait for it to pass. [laughter] >> You're surrounded by water. You're safe. >> You'll be safe. And when you finally come back up, >> everybody's gone. >> Yes. But um No, but they have hunter killer. They have the hunter killer submarines, so they're not entirely safe. >> Yeah, it's true. There have been sightings of alien craft that just went into the ocean and it was going like 500 miles an hour through the ocean and people are like what? >> It's real. It's real. [laughter] >> We have video and if you don't have video give me a few minutes and I will give you a video. >> We'll create a video for you [laughter] on it. >> Is working on it. >> Yeah. But I think um you know like the big challenge now everyone's going to have um and this is like some of the stuff that came out of Dragon Wing the conference um I had I actually had a chat with uh Marello and uh Fabio about this is um you know modernization you know you talked about the the what is it the Linux uh kernel >> issue. Yeah. The thing is a lot of stuff a lot of systems out there are not patchable, right? And so we were talking about that and um there's going to be this >> there's going to be I think a pivot

>> away from the AI investment and all the transformation crap to boards now being scared shitless. um you know getting uh their IT and OT and just any technology related thing >> upgraded >> corporate boards or printed circuit boards >> both. >> Okay. [laughter] All right. All right. corporate boards or >> or what you should do is go back to real time embedded voices, disconnect the freaking the freaking internet and any type of connection and and use AI at the edge and and have independent >> entities that are not hackable and do their thing. >> Genius right there. If you need to connect, use ZODM >> or Net Buoy, take your pick. Adalstar Galactica people. [laughter] >> I was going to say banyan vines. >> Banyan vines. Banyan vines. Simplify the communication. You do morse over light.

>> Yeah. >> Like simplify communication. So So it's readable and Yeah. >> It it worked for us in Independence Day. It was using, you know, the aliens didn't know. >> Yeah. This is my backup right here. >> I can't see. It's blurry. >> Your Apple is old Mac. Yeah. >> Oh yeah, your Mac. >> My Mac Plus. Yeah, that's my backup. Well, >> still works. >> We started this episode talking about why AI is moving to the edge. I think we've kind of concluded that that is the way to go. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Full circle. >> Yes. >> True. It's true. But uh and I I agree. I think the Arduino folks are on to something with the this I hope that we start to get religion about kind of hardware hardening and endpoint hardening and >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's uh we have a discussion uh so we yeah you know we just started the security working group in the foundation talking about how do we go from like from the point of manufacture you know using that uh keys to uh enable uh you know trusted execution of agents and things there's this all this about oh my agents are going to jump onto my TV and blah blah blah like no so but you know having hardware that says you know you can you you know you have to have permission to You could do that on edge hardware a lot more uh capably than than >> you remember.

>> Do you remember something called Azure Sphere? >> Yeah, there you go. [clears throat] >> 10 years ago. >> Huge success. >> I think it was about 10 years ago. >> You translate that to today's uh Arduino's architecture with two brains, one microcontroller, one higher level. >> That's like a Steve Martin, >> you know, confidential comput in in addition to that. Yeah, you're basically doing confidential computing on the edge >> and that's what we need to have so that these things are and they need to be certif safety certified and all this other stuff. >> What the hell? >> And all that needs to be done. >> I remember an embedded operating system from a long time ago where we could turn on basically what you would call whitelisting and basically it's like no app can execute or launch >> unless >> unless it has keys. Yeah, >> we we we have to um Yeah, >> which is more more locked down than blacklisting by far. It's like nothing can run unless you got the keys, you know, or the >> Glen Azure Sphere was exactly that. >> Mhm.

>> Like any kind of application you wanted to run it, you had to be had to be signed and it was it was actually checked in the Pluton chip that was doing that under the hood. So uncrackable >> chambered. >> Yeah. Yeah. I know you're right. >> We're getting there. >> We figure this stuff out. >> We'll get it done on the edge first. I mean, the cloud is already >> screwed, but you know, we at least we can fix it on the edge. >> Well, think about all those for potential Ford deployed engineers that are going to be coming out of um Microsoft. >> So maybe they they can help out in this new revolution, which is the edge AI. >> But are they going to be as good as Palunteers, forward deployed engineers? M hey we could we could [laughter] yeah if they join forehead >> Leonard post Leonard postage is like does anybody know what Palunteer is or what they do [laughter] like kind of >> kind of >> well no I love it because a lot of people have no freaking clue what they do and so I started taking the their reference design whatever their their you know their diagrams that explain their architecture. It's like >> anyone can do this. This is like >> basic >> and there and people are freaking out about it. There's nothing here. I mean >> uh seriously, if you guys want, let me

take a look at your stuff. I will break it down and I will call the balls and strikes. I'll tell you what parts of your stuff is >> Throw it down. Throw it down. >> Yeah. And if there's any investors out there who want me to do that, um, pay me a billion dollars and I'll do it. I need I need unlazy money. >> The only reason why I don't do it is because I'm lazy. >> Yes. [clears throat] >> Good. Good excuse. >> I do like watching the best excuse. >> I'm lazy. >> By the way, I do I need to split a few minutes early cuz I am stocking up on my tin, fish, and toilet paper. So, >> yeah, you better get that. [laughter] In fact, I Everybody needs >> all you guys get it. I'm going to get it. >> Yeah. >> Did you do you have >> Do you guys have a minute? >> Do you have a generator? Do you have a generator? >> Got a generator. >> I have an EV. I have an EV. It can can actually power the fridge and a bunch of things for a few days. >> And then you'll be screwed. Anyway. Yeah. All right. [laughter] >> Three days. >> All right. It's too funny.

>> Oh my gosh. Yeah. >> Well, Tom, it's good to have you back on dude. >> Yeah, man. It's been Thank you so much. Yeah, I know. It's just been super super busy recently, but yeah, I wanted to jump on >> and and now I just feel scared. [laughter] >> Why? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Now, now I feel like I don't have enough tin soup and mackerel, [laughter] >> right? Better go in the store. >> Tom, it's for entertainment only. >> Wait for it. Wait for it. If the prime minister of your country and all these other countries are telling their citizens, there may be enough people who go and you might be surprised when you get to the grocery store, to the supermarket, you might go to Tesco and go, "Where's all the 10 fish? Where's all the >> kitty litter?" >> Yeah. >> Seriously, just talking about this can get people going and doing things. >> Oh, yeah. That that was like the thing, you know, in co everyone >> with the fuel, right? >> Yeah. wipe their butts with like freaking >> Oh, yeah. No, there was no toilet paper.

There was nothing. It was dogs living together. >> You should try and grab Opus clip and put a little uh prompt that says, "Extract from this episode all the shitty things we said about aliens and make it a clip. It's going to go viral. I'm fairly sure." >> NO, YOU'RE RIGHT. Do that. Do that cuz we need to be >> I'll send you the clip >> cuz you know why we need to be viral? Because we are >> we're the number one podcast on the planet Earth. We may be the last people talking to you. It's kind of like uh >> Rob, the last podcast on planet Earth. >> Last podcast. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> I always think of that. >> This is not the last episode. >> I always think of that British voice. Mine is the last voice you will ever hear. Don't be alarmed. >> I think Frankie Goes to Hollywood put that into one of their songs like in Two Tribes on the extended dance mix. Um >> really? >> Yeah. >> Know that? How the hell do you know? >> Last podcast. We're going to be like, we're the last people, you know, >> coming to you radio free earth.

>> Yeah. [laughter] And the aliens will watch it to figure out what the hell this IoT thing is. Yeah. >> That's how we're going to win. >> Exactly. Actually, no. That's how they're going to kill us is because we stupidly connected everything. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Oops. >> I know, man. It is really weird. >> My bad. [laughter] >> Um Yeah, it it is true. Yes, definitely. Let's definitely get Olivier the video clips and he can use the AI because I think that's a great idea. Having funny clips of alien stuff. >> Yeah. >> And people have a whole new view of what this show is all about. >> Yeah. Send it to, you know, just send him the link too every week. >> We are not alone. >> We're not alone. Yes. [laughter] >> We have Do you remember? Do you remember >> alien operatives in our midst? I remember a James Bond movie where it was like one of the I think it was Roger Moore and it was not long after Close Encounters and he had to go into the steel and it was a keypad to get into the locked door and he went and I'm [laughter] like very very relevant with social. Yes, it was cool.

That was cool. >> Not too smart. [laughter] >> All right, that's got that's all we got. We got aliens [clears throat] and we got 10 hats and we're going to stock up on all those things. >> Yeah, the edge is going to save us. >> Yeah, that's what I hear. That's what I hear. Yeah, >> I think Olivier should take us out. >> He's such a pro at all this stuff. >> I can definitely. So, go stock up on on toilet paper tins and whatever. Um, we're doing that. We're doing that to elevate our communities, right? >> Yeah, we are. You have to think about that. It's It's about having fun. Definitely. Uh so go still, you never know. Go stock up. Have fun but doing it. But um you never know. So that's that's pretty much it for today. Have fun guys. See you soon. Maybe >> maybe >> maybe [laughter] next week. [music]